Proflight Pedals Issue in Black Shark.

[thdman1511]

I am after some advise on how to stabilise the my rudder in BlackShark 2. The issue I am having at present is that when I turn the rudder to the right and I then return it to neutral position the helicopter will turn back to the left. I have tried to trim the helicopter.

 

I think the rudder pedals which are Saitek Proflight Pedals not the combat one, are too sensitive, I have the tension on the pedal loose so that it can return to neutral postion once I take my feet off them. as a result I cannot trim the BS due to the rudder always wanting to turn the helicopter in the opposition direction after I have turn the BS in the direction I want.

 

Do I tighten up the tension on the pedals, or do I do an axis tune and use a curve profile for the pedals, to stabilize them.

[Yurgon]

From your description, it sounds to me like you still need to figure out the Ka-50's stability augmentation system, the trim, and how the rudder is included in the trimmer. I think there's nothing wrong with your hardware.

 

Have you watched Froogle's video regarding the trim?

 

 

Just be aware that the rudder is also trimmed whenever you click the trim button (in addition to the cyclic stick), so that you have to quickly re-center it after trimming.

 

Also, make sure to take a look at the inputs that act on the Ka-50 by using the Controls Indicator (RCtrl + Enter).

 

You could also do a short flight that demonstrates your problem, then on the debriefing screen save the track and upload the track to the forum so that we can take a look. That track doesn't show your real rudder position, but we will see how the rudder is applied in the Ka-50. Maybe we can then help you narrow it down further. :thumbup:

 

Edit:

 

After reading your post again, it sounds to me as if you intend to yaw the helicopter like you would steer a car.

 

Instead, in order to change its heading, you must fly it more or less like a fixed wing aircraft where you roll it to one direction in order to turn in that direction, and then once you're on your desired heading, you roll back to level flight.

 

You should really post a track so that we can take a look and give some advice. :)

 

For the time being, I just think there's nothing wrong with your pedals, you just need to learn how to fly the Ka-50.

Edited January 15, 2015 by Yurgon

[thdman1511]

Thanks for your reply

 

I had been practicing using the datalink, to send commands to wingman, and everytime I tried to turn the helicopter to in tthe direction I want the wingman to go, the rudder would turn the helicopter and when I allow the pedals to return to centre the helicopter would return to the original direction if was facing prior to the desired turn.

 

I understand that autopilot has 20% authority, and that I will be fighting against it, and have to trim the helicopter. When I am flying I roll and yaw, into the direction but on this occassion I just wanted to turn the helicopter towards the location while it was almost at hovering position.

So I guess that means that I would need to have the helicopter facing the desired correction, and trim the helicopters to keep it facing that direction everytime I make a turn.

 

Anyway I have attached my trk file of what I was doing in free flight. hopefully this will give you some idea what I was trying to do.

 

Unfortunately I tend to lose my engines due to turbine over revving I think, so I still have to read the manual a little more so that I know the system better.

BlackShark2Rudd.trk

[Yurgon]

So I guess that means that I would need to have the helicopter facing the desired correction, and trim the helicopters to keep it facing that direction everytime I make a turn.

 

Absolutely. Helicopters require insane amounts of trimming. Or, in other terms, you need to trim after every change of its attitude. Basically, whatever you want the helicopter to do, you need to trim afterwards.

 

AFAIK, the "eastern" doctrine is to actually trim while changing attitude. So you would roll a bit, trim, roll a bit more, trim, roll a bit more, trim, stabilize, trim, and so on and so on.

 

The "western" doctrine is to keep the trim button pressed during the maneuver, so you would press it, roll until you've reached the desired attitude, then release the trim button, stabilize and trim again.

 

Whichever of these you choose, you have to trim often and it will soon become second nature. :thumbup:

 

Anyway I have attached my trk file of what I was doing in free flight. hopefully this will give you some idea what I was trying to do.

 

From what I can tell, for the most part of the flight you were hardly giving any input with the cyclic stick. Much like with a fixed wing aircraft, it's only natural for a helicopter to return to its previous attitude after yaw input is returned to center.

 

Also, roughly around the time before you reached the sea, you had quite a bit of right yaw trimmed in before you trimmed it back to neutral.

 

In order to change heading, you need to roll (cyclic stick left/right) more than you need to yaw (rudder left/right).

 

In addition, the Ka-50 by default will try to keep you on your currently trimmed flight parameters, so as you already said, you need to trim in order not to fight the autopilot.

 

Unfortunately I tend to lose my engines due to turbine over revving I think, so I still have to read the manual a little more so that I know the system better.

 

In the playback, I saw you dive and exceed IAS MAX (maximum airspeed) so that the blades from the upper and lower rotor discs collided.

Check out this awesome article: DCS: Black Shark and Coaxial Rotor Aerodynamics (especially the image where is says "Making Rotor Blade Salad" :D)

Anything else was a result of the rotor blades being torn to shreds.

 

In essence, I still don't think there's anything wrong with your pedals, you just need a little more practice in order to figure out this helicopter. But it really is very difficult to fly and understand, so just take small steps and you'll have mastered it in no time. :thumbup:

[Fishbreath]

Everything Yurgon said is correct, but there's one additional caveat. If you're in a hover, you can turn off the heading hold autopilot channel and turn freely with the pedals. Once you're on the heading you want to be, you can turn heading hold back on, and the autopilot will hold the new, desired heading.

 

This is 'cowboy doctrine', as it were; you aren't supposed to turn off any autopilot channel but altitude hold. That said, it's always worked well enough for me.

[thdman1511]

Thankyou for all the help you have given, much appreciated, Just one last them in regards to IAS Max and overspeed, was reading how to recover from it in the manual, I am just wondering whether I should assign both left and right throttle, and during normal operation lock them both together as it does say reduce the throttle to the affected engine while putting the other throttle to full to maintain rpms. At present I have both left and Right throttle lock and assigned as one throttle.

 

Once again thanks for all your help given.

 

PS. I good at making rotor blade salad. lol.

[Yurgon]

Just one last them in regards to IAS Max and overspeed, was reading how to recover from it in the manual, I am just wondering whether I should assign both left and right throttle, [...]

 

I'm not sure what the manual says about it, but generally you don't need to fiddle with the throttles. The term is a bit misleading because the throttles only set one of 4 stages (Idle, Governor fail, Normal and Emergency if memory serves). I don't think it's necessary to move the throttles out of the NORM position just because you're flying too fast.

 

So when I fly very fast (regardless of IAS MAX alarm), this is what helps me keep everything intact:

Lower the Collective. If you pull too much collective at high speeds, you're practically guaranteed to get a rotor disc intersection.

 

Be gentle on the Cyclic. Avoid quick deflections, avoid strong deflections. Just use smooth inputs and try to remain calm.

 

Pitch the nose up. If you're descending, slowly get out of the descent, if you already fly level, go into a shallow climb. That should quickly bleed off airspeed and get you to a safe speed.

 

At approximately 200 kph you can maneuver pretty wildly, at 250 you should be rather careful and at 300 you're always just a little pull on the collective away from a deadly rotor blade intersection, so always be mindful of your airspeed.

 

If you're up for some fun, you can do the following: Climb to high altitude, say, 5000 meters, put the Collective to the bottom and then nose down. Like this, you can easily exceed 450 kph and pull out of the dive with everything intact. Just do not pull the Collective up until you've slowed down and be sure to be gentle on the Cyclic. :)

 

Edit: Oh, BTW throttle, if you have some unused axes on your controllers, these guys came up with some cool ideas: No advantage to mapping both throttles to axises during emergencies? :)

 

Edit #2: There's also a fresh discussion on rotor collision, lots of good info on the topic. :)

Edited January 17, 2015 by Yurgon