Crashing the black shark!

[Honest989]

:icon_jook

 

Am I drunk? No!

 

Whenever I fly a mission, if it's in a new aircraft from lomac ( I still have to go through the SU-25, Migs, F-15) I can virtually guarantee that since I'm still learning I'm probably going to get shot.

 

The AFM for the SU-25 was great as it allowed for crash landings... these were hard to pull off mind you.. it was tough to find flat land in flaming cliffs (hence the name) but when you crash landed, you could then admire your lovely buggered-up aircraft.

 

Is it going to be the same in Black shark? Probably... But helicopters don't glide.. So is anybody able to tell me whether or not we'd get the chance to auto-rotate in the black shark... for instance if a tail rotor was lost?

 

 

Last question, someone explain to me what 'azimuth' means.. i have a vague idea but without looking it up, its true meaning eludes me.

[zorlac]

...for instance if a tail rotor was lost?..

 

(There is no tail rotor on Ka50)

 

As for autorotation, not sure... not a tester, so havent flown it....

[Weta43]

I'me pretty sure I read a post from a tester that you could auto-rotate in LOBS

[britgliderpilot]

I'me pretty sure I read a post from a tester that you could auto-rotate in LOBS

 

Wonder what kind of thermal strength you'd need to climb away and soar home in a deadstick Ka50 . . . . . . hmmn . . . .

[Weta43]

Mt Pinatubo?

[GGTharos]

Yes, of course you can autorotate in the Ka-50.

 

The AFM is pretty good and accounts for a whole bunch of things. Crashes can be spectacular - or not - depending on the hows and whys ;)

[Honest989]

To tell truth though.. I'm a little concerned.

 

Flight sims are kind of notorious for bad FPS.. they're kind of system hogs. LO:MAC is no exception, especially with the smoke...

 

Here's my two pence: Look for the video on the website showing the black shark dancing around a column of trucks. Notice how you get the dust clouds beneath it as it flies close to the ground.

 

Now, when you crash land in the SU-25's and switch to F2 to admire this, the crash generates (while in motion) the same dust cloud... but also the FPS goes to about 3-5 as well during this..

 

Combine this with a full 3D cockpit, are we going to see some bad frame rates? (I know someone posted a thread about LO:MAC BS called 'will it kill my pc') The fact that the detail on the vehicles has been increased probably means a lower ceiling of operation so there could be quite a bit of that 'dust' flying about.

[Weta43]

I share your concerns, but the devs did say that the dust on that clip was a "placeholder" for the dust we'll get, so maybe it won't be so bad - & you probably won't want to F2 close to the ground & in the heat of things anyway so even if FPS drop - it's only while you're spectating.

[Force_Feedback]

Mt Pinatubo?

 

LOL, lets hope the grear boxes really can run 30 minutes without oil, cause that vulcanic dust is going to mess up the whole engine.

 

Ooh, will we get partial rotor failures (ie a small piece of the rotor gets shot off, and the thing will start to vibrate like hell)?

[Laivynas]

... and you almost allways have a chanse to eject. ;)

[Shepski]

I was able to get the upper and lower rotor blades to collide with each other while pulling off a high G mistake. :) Of course the rotors broke apart and I plumetted to the ground. The AFM is something else in Black Shark!!

[Shepski]

Ooh, will we get partial rotor failures (ie a small piece of the rotor gets shot off, and the thing will start to vibrate like hell)?

 

Yes.

[RvETito]

Is it going to be the same in Black shark? Probably... But helicopters don't glide.. So is anybody able to tell me whether or not we'd get the chance to auto-rotate in the black shark... for instance if a tail rotor was lost?

 

As been said, no tail rotor for the entire Kamov family ;) I just want to add that if the tail rotor fails in the single main rotor design the result would be a certain crash, even if you disconnect the engine(s) from the main gearbox- i.e. go into autorotation. There won't be anything to balance the torque of the main rotor and the helicopter with jammed tail rotor will start to spin in direction oposite to the rotor's.

As for wheter this is modelled in BS- I can't imagine a helicopter AFM without autorotation. This is equal to not model the gliding of a fixed wing aircraft.

 

 

Last question, someone explain to me what 'azimuth' means.. i have a vague idea but without looking it up, its true meaning eludes me.

 

Azimuth is the angle between two rays- one constantly pointed to a designated point and the other is pointing some current point. It is a term from the naviagtion and is also widely used in helicopter rotor mechanics. In the last case this is the current angle between the blade's axis and the ray pointed backwards. Examples- if the blade is at 6 o'clock when look at the rotor disc from above than it has 0 degrees azimuth; when it's on the 3 o'clock position it's at 90 degrees(for russian single rotor helos, because they rotate counter clockwise, for western helos this is the 270' azimuth); the 12 o'clock(straight forward) position is the 180 degrees azimuth. In the Kamov dual coaxial main rotors design the lower rotor rotates counter clockwise and the upper rotates clockwise so their 90 and 270 azimuth are mirrored.

[Force_Feedback]

The Ka-60/62 has a tail rotor :p

 

Wee, we'll have rotor blade clashing!!! :icon_supe

[NEODARK]

LOL, lets hope the grear boxes really can run 30 minutes without oil, cause that vulcanic dust is going to mess up the whole engine.

 

Ooh, will we get partial rotor failures (ie a small piece of the rotor gets shot off, and the thing will start to vibrate like hell)?

At that point, you should start thinking about pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanoconiosis ;)

 

PS: I can't wait until I see this:

 

01/08:53:36 BLUE "yournamehere" (Ka-50) kill aircraft RED "Su-27" by rotor blade

[RvETito]

lets hope the grear boxes really can run 30 minutes without oil, cause that vulcanic dust is going to mess up the whole engine.

 

I can garantee you that the gearbox will 101% jam if it runs dry for more than one minute max.

[RvETito]

The Ka-60/62 has a tail rotor :p

 

Wee, we'll have rotor blade clashing!!! :icon_supe

 

It has a fan, it's called fenestron and I intentionaly didn't mention it.

 

The blades' colision is aslo part of the AFM. This is the major drawback of the coaxial rotor design. The worse combination of control input is to pull hard on the cyclic at high airspeed and to push the right pedal(this increase the collective pitch of the lower rotor and decrease the collective of the upper with the same angle).

[ALDEGA]

I was able to get the upper and lower rotor blades to collide with each other while pulling off a high G mistake. :) Of course the rotors broke apart and I plumetted to the ground. The AFM is something else in Black Shark!!

Video, video! ;)

[Shaman]

Honest989. To answer to your question. Yes, we will experience hell a lot of FPS drops.

What you saw on that BS trailer is a pre-rendered animation. It would run in typical to lockon slideshow mode on devs' PCs. :rolleyes:

[britgliderpilot]

I was able to get the upper and lower rotor blades to collide with each other while pulling off a high G mistake. :) Of course the rotors broke apart and I plumetted to the ground. The AFM is something else in Black Shark!!

 

Hmmn - interesting point, there's got to be a scenario in which that is a problem.

 

IIRC we decided you get yaw in the Ka50 by increasing pitch on one set of rotors and decreasing on the other - so if you increase pitch on the lower rotor and decrease on the upper, while banking and pulling G, the risk of rotor clashing becomes a nice problem . . . .

 

Question now is, which way does each rotor turn and so is this represented by a lower tolerance for errors when throwing the aircraft around in one particular direction?

[Glowing_Amraam]

As for the dust effect: It has been tweaked to look both better, and not to seriously kill the frame rate when, say, hovering at low alt. :)

[Weta43]

Tito wrote " I can garantee you that the gearbox will 101% jam if it runs dry for more than one minute max. "

 

A couple of avaition / military hardware sites I've looked at say the gearboxes are designed to - & will run for - half an hour with no oil.

[Shepski]

It has a fan, it's called fenestron and I intentionaly didn't mention it.

 

The blades' colision is aslo part of the AFM. This is the major drawback of the coaxial rotor design. The worse combination of control input is to pull hard on the cyclic at high airspeed and to push the right pedal(this increase the collective pitch of the lower rotor and decrease the collective of the upper with the same angle).

 

That's exactly what I did!

[Shepski]

Video, video! ;)

 

I have a video of it!

[RvETito]

A couple of avaition / military hardware sites I've looked at say the gearboxes are designed to - & will run for - half an hour with no oil.

 

Helicopter gearbox? No way, man. I'll quote the orginal operation manual of the VR-252 gearbox(Ka-27/29/31/32) which is very similar to the one of Ka-50- if the oil pressure in the GB drops below 1.5 bar no further flight is allowed i.e. land imidiately. What's left then for total loss of pressure?

Let me tell you few things about this component, the gearbox in Kamov helicopters. It is completely overloaded by the great unput power (4400 ehp)and it serves to transmit the aerodynamic loads(total thrust of the rotor is about 13 000 kgf) of the blades to the airframe. So you see, it works in extremely conditons and left without cooling oil it's temperature will increase too fast which will force the steel gears into thermal expansion and quiet soon it will collapse. I know cases of jammed VR-252 in flight with nominal oil pressure.

The TV3-117 engine is another story. There have been several cases of engines left without oil to operate normaly in Afghanistan in the '80s. You can always shut down the engine to operate it at idle, unfortunately you can't do that with the GB- it must maintain 90+-2% rotors RPM.