pepto Posted February 12, 2015 Posted February 12, 2015 now trust me i'm no expert on this but i've seen a ton of footage from WWII where the aircraft would be taking off from fields rather than concrete runways, however in dcs it's pretty clear that trying to takeoff or land on any grassy area is pretty much suicide :cry: i think it would be really cool if we got some sort of grassy airfield for the WWII modules, especially with the VEAO and dcs spits coming 'round the corner, it just seems more fitting than having your home base be a modern airport :P
SlipBall Posted February 12, 2015 Posted February 12, 2015 (edited) I have been taking off and landing on the grass, it just takes a little more concentration, anyway I know for myself that is the case. Also some fields are better than others for doing this. Here's one thats not very pretty to look at :P Edited February 28, 2015 by GT 5.0
pepto Posted February 13, 2015 Author Posted February 13, 2015 I have been taking off and landing on the grass, it just takes a little more concentration, anyway I know for myself that is the case. Also some fields are better than others for doing this. Here's one thats not very pretty to look at :P well at least i know it isn't totally impossible, looks like i have some practicing to do :smartass:
SlipBall Posted February 13, 2015 Posted February 13, 2015 well at least i know it isn't totally impossible, looks like i have some practicing to do :smartass: Yeah does take some training, try practicing on this very same field for now. Once landed, taxi back to the houses then turn around and takeoff into the wind. This field is about 3.4k short of the runway in the World open beta, instant action menu, final approach mission
Ala13_ManOWar Posted February 13, 2015 Posted February 13, 2015 I did it many times and it's pretty well modelled, you can feel the increased drag and you have better control than concrete runway. When a new propeller module is out and people are struggling with it just for taking off I recommend try on the grass until they gain some control. It works! S! "I went into the British Army believing that if you want peace you must prepare for war. I believe now that if you prepare for war, you get war." -- Major-General Frederick B. Maurice
9.JG27 DavidRed Posted February 14, 2015 Posted February 14, 2015 yeah, its definitely possible and only a matter of practice...still i think, it could and should be further tuned, considering the WW2 modules and their behaviour on it....everything not "concrete" seems to be just too sticky and the slightest sideslip will cause big trouble.in my view thats overdone. also the fact that heavier aircraft like the A10 cant move at all anymore once they find themselves in the fields hints that it just didnt get too much attention by the devs yet....
deyv Posted February 14, 2015 Posted February 14, 2015 need to try that out... cause landing is impossible for me right now... :( |Ka-50|A-10C2|FC3|F-16C Viper|F-14A/B Tomcat|F/A-18 Hornet|Mig-21bis|Bf-109K-4|Spitfire.IX|FW190 D-9|Normandy|Channel|Nevada|Gulf|Syria|Supercarrier|AH-64D Apache|F-15E Mudhen|
Crumpp Posted February 14, 2015 Posted February 14, 2015 Taildragger LOVE grass... It increases the rolling friction coefficient slowing down any swing that develops. Most of your airfields were grass strips during World War II for this reason. 1 Answers to most important questions ATC can ask that every pilot should memorize: 1. No, I do not have a pen. 2. Indicating 250
Crumpp Posted February 14, 2015 Posted February 14, 2015 everything not "concrete" seems to be just too sticky and the slightest sideslip will cause big trouble.in my view thats overdone. It should be "stickier" in the grass and much easier to control any swing of the tail. Taildraggers hate pavement and the chances of swing developing into a ground loop are much greater on pavement. Answers to most important questions ATC can ask that every pilot should memorize: 1. No, I do not have a pen. 2. Indicating 250
SlipBall Posted February 14, 2015 Posted February 14, 2015 what's really nice about the grass, is not having to worry about going in a straight line, like we do with the concrete
Crumpp Posted February 14, 2015 Posted February 14, 2015 It is still a taildragger so it is never as forgiving as a tricycle gear aircraft. But at least it looks cooler and requires some degree of skill to fly!!! :music_whistling: Answers to most important questions ATC can ask that every pilot should memorize: 1. No, I do not have a pen. 2. Indicating 250
ricktoberfest Posted February 14, 2015 Posted February 14, 2015 Neither of those videos show a takeoff. Is it possible to gain speed from stopped on grass? I know other aircraft once stopped are done- no amount of thrust will get them moving.
SlipBall Posted February 14, 2015 Posted February 14, 2015 But at least it looks cooler and requires some degree of skill to fly!!! :music_whistling: yes I agree that they look so much cooler Neither of those videos show a takeoff. Is it possible to gain speed from stopped on grass? I know other aircraft once stopped are done- no amount of thrust will get them moving. there is not a problem with that for the take-off's...sometimes a good bump will screw things up
9.JG27 DavidRed Posted February 15, 2015 Posted February 15, 2015 Neither of those videos show a takeoff. Is it possible to gain speed from stopped on grass? I know other aircraft once stopped are done- no amount of thrust will get them moving. yes, with our current ww2 aircraft its no problem to accelerate on grass fields...but the issue you are talking about, other planes not beeing able to move at all even with full thrust, makes me believe that our current grass is a little too sticky :)
Crumpp Posted February 15, 2015 Posted February 15, 2015 Sounds like it might be a little too sticky if planes are not moving with full thrust. Answers to most important questions ATC can ask that every pilot should memorize: 1. No, I do not have a pen. 2. Indicating 250
pepto Posted February 15, 2015 Author Posted February 15, 2015 so if i were to land on grass what should i keep a close eye on? speed and decent speed? breaks or no breaks? trim? so far i've mainly been trying to focus on the slip indicated to get the straightest landing possible :joystick:
SlipBall Posted February 15, 2015 Posted February 15, 2015 (edited) so if i were to land on grass what should i keep a close eye on? speed and decent speed? breaks or no breaks? trim? so far i've mainly been trying to focus on the slip indicated to get the straightest landing possible :joystick: Really just the same as if it were a runway...these field landings are overly difficult/hard in my opinion, you have to be nearly perfect in your execution of. Wether it is the aircraft's suspension or something else that is to blame(I'm not sure what it is) hopefully it will be looked at, and corrected while it is still in beta. :helpsmilie: Edited February 15, 2015 by GT 5.0
Alladyn Posted February 15, 2015 Posted February 15, 2015 yeah, its definitely possible and only a matter of practice...still i think, it could and should be further tuned, considering the WW2 modules and their behaviour on it....everything not "concrete" seems to be just too sticky and the slightest sideslip will cause big trouble.in my view thats overdone. also the fact that heavier aircraft like the A10 cant move at all anymore once they find themselves in the fields hints that it just didnt get too much attention by the devs yet.... Nice landing :thumbup: btw, how to set camera that way you did? [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
effte Posted February 15, 2015 Posted February 15, 2015 These aircraft should handle landing on a grass field just fine. However, a grass field (as in grass strip) is not just any plain old field you happen to find. Land in an arbitrary field, and it is likely to end up in disaster. They will be too bumpy, causing you to get airborne again with too little airspeed. They will be too soft, causing the landing gear to dig in and the aircraft to nose over. The grass will not be maintained to the required standard, again likely causing too much drag and possibly a nose-over - and definitely problems taking off again, or perhaps even to get the aircraft rolling from a standstill. Piles of grass in front of the main tyres are rather effective shocks. Never brake to a stop on a grass field, especially if the grass hasn't been cut in the last few days... It's not increased friction which makes it easier to control conventional gear aircraft (taildraggers) on grass, but rather decreased friction. The lower (and quite different) friction allows a higher tyre slip angle (that's the sideways movement over a ground exhibited by any tyre which provides a force perpendicular to the direction in which it is rolling) for a given lateral force, which means you can get it more sideways before coming to grief. This translates into larger margins for error and much more forgiving ground handling. Cheers, /Fred ----- Introduction to UTM/MGRS - Trying to get your head around what trim is, how it works and how to use it? - DCS helos vs the real world.
Crumpp Posted February 15, 2015 Posted February 15, 2015 It's not increased friction which makes it easier to control conventional gear aircraft (taildraggers) on grass, Actually the coefficient of friction tends to be higher for grass compared to dry pavement. You are right in that the way that friction interacts with the tire makes all the difference in the world. Counter-intuitive...I know!! That interaction is part of the higher coefficient. Granted, it can change with conditions...soft earth...wet grass...grass height...etc. Here is some rolling coefficients I found real quick. You can see the effect of earth, pavement, etc.. http://hpwizard.com/tire-friction-coefficient.html Had to calculate take off and landing distances based off the aerodynamic coefficients in college. I think I have a table of standard values for the co-efficient of friction for grass somewhere! :book: Answers to most important questions ATC can ask that every pilot should memorize: 1. No, I do not have a pen. 2. Indicating 250
effte Posted February 15, 2015 Posted February 15, 2015 (edited) What happens to your required landing distance on grass? It goes up. What does this imply as for the friction on grass? You're mixing it up with the rolling resistance, which is something else entirely. Yes, one decreases and the other increases, and it is the reduced friction/increased slip angles which makes the difference as far as ground handling margin goes. Here you go for an idea about the relative friction coefficients: http://physics.info/friction/ Rough LDR calcs: http://www.chesapeakesportpilot.com/pages/hot_topics/grass_landings.pdf Edited February 15, 2015 by effte Clarification. ----- Introduction to UTM/MGRS - Trying to get your head around what trim is, how it works and how to use it? - DCS helos vs the real world.
SlipBall Posted February 15, 2015 Posted February 15, 2015 What happens to your required landing distance on grass? It goes up. What does this imply as for the friction on grass? You're mixing it up with the rolling resistance, which is something else entirely. Yes, one decreases and the other increases, and it is the reduced friction/increased slip angles which makes the difference as far as ground handling margin goes. Here you go for an idea about the relative friction coefficients: http://physics.info/friction/ Rough LDR calcs: http://www.chesapeakesportpilot.com/pages/hot_topics/grass_landings.pdf Wow wet grass add 60% to distance, amazing!...thanks for the links
sobek Posted February 15, 2015 Posted February 15, 2015 yes, with our current ww2 aircraft its no problem to accelerate on grass fields...but the issue you are talking about, other planes not beeing able to move at all even with full thrust, makes me believe that our current grass is a little too sticky :) Bigger jets have way too high surface loads for unfortified runways (unless they are specifically designed for it, still most need some form of fortification). A WWII era prop isn't even in the same ballpark. All that would happen is you'd move a few metres until your front wheel is knee deep stuck in the dirt. From that point, you're going nowhere with no amount of thrust. Good, fast, cheap. Choose any two. Come let's eat grandpa! Use punctuation, save lives!
effte Posted February 16, 2015 Posted February 16, 2015 Wow wet grass add 60% to distance, amazing!...thanks for the links And that's not playing it safe either, IMO - you're not getting much braking on wet grass before you're sliding. ----- Introduction to UTM/MGRS - Trying to get your head around what trim is, how it works and how to use it? - DCS helos vs the real world.
taps Posted February 16, 2015 Posted February 16, 2015 Bigger jets have way too high surface loads for unfortified runways (unless they are specifically designed for it, still most need some form of fortification). A WWII era prop isn't even in the same ballpark. All that would happen is you'd move a few metres until your front wheel is knee deep stuck in the dirt. From that point, you're going nowhere with no amount of thrust. :yes: http://www.20min.ch/diashow/82051/82051-baR68otRQ6Af26bQZa9WeQ.jpg
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