Su-27 Flanker (1995) - LockOn deleted features?

[Guest VolkVoland]

Hi guys, I hope you can help me out with some anomalies in LockOn.

 

Ever since the original v1.0 Su-27 Flanker back from 1995, every new release seems to "loose" Flankers main tactical features.

 

In original release auto gun mode was present, along with cruise-missile lock/intercept, EWR/AWACS data-link (DRLO) with passive tracking for BVR R-27E/ER attack and IRST mid course correction, and what the hell happened to R-77? The Fulcrum gets R-77s with it's weaker radar, but the Flanker doesn't? What gives?

 

Technically speaking, by now the Flanker has been totally castrated, all under presumed attention to realism.

 

Please feel free to type in Russian, I read/speak fine but ashamed to admit my laziness in my sloppy spelling and the lack of time to put up a MUI pack and mark the keys again. You know, stickers peel off, marker rubs off, a general pain in the ass.

 

Thanks guys.

[ViperVJG73]

Hi guys, I hope you can help me out with some anomalies in LockOn.

 

Ever since the original v1.0 Su-27 Flanker back from 1995, every new release seems to "loose" Flankers main tactical features.

 

In original release auto gun mode was present, along with cruise-missile lock/intercept, EWR/AWACS data-link (DRLO) with passive tracking for BVR R-27E/ER attack and IRST mid course correction, and what the hell happened to R-77? The Fulcrum gets R-77s with it's weaker radar, but the Flanker doesn't? What gives?

 

Technically speaking, by now the Flanker has been totally castrated, all under presumed attention to realism.

 

Please feel free to type in Russian, I read/speak fine but ashamed to admit my laziness in my sloppy spelling and the lack of time to put up a MUI pack and mark the keys again. You know, stickers peel off, marker rubs off, a general pain in the ass.

 

Thanks guys.

 

 

You can set all these weapon features with LOPE 1.01 (Lock On Pylon Editor).

 

Not in Hyperlobby! Only singleplayer!

 

Download here: http://www.checksix-fr.com/

http://www.checksix-fr.com/bibliotheque/index.php?Fichier=1487

 

Regards

[Guest VolkVoland]

Thanks ViperVJG73, I knew that a common sense fix had to be out there.

 

I left Flanker 2.0 forum years ago, and glad to know that "fix" is available to "correct" the situation.

 

Thanks again.

[Alfa]

Hi guys, I hope you can help me out with some anomalies in LockOn.

 

Ever since the original v1.0 Su-27 Flanker back from 1995, every new release seems to "loose" Flankers main tactical features.

 

In original release auto gun mode was present, along with cruise-missile lock/intercept, EWR/AWACS data-link (DRLO) with passive tracking for BVR R-27E/ER attack and IRST mid course correction, and what the hell happened to R-77? The Fulcrum gets R-77s with it's weaker radar, but the Flanker doesn't? What gives?

 

Technically speaking, by now the Flanker has been totally castrated, all under presumed attention to realism.

 

Please feel free to type in Russian, I read/speak fine but ashamed to admit my laziness in my sloppy spelling and the lack of time to put up a MUI pack and mark the keys again. You know, stickers peel off, marker rubs off, a general pain in the ass.

 

Thanks guys.

 

LOL...

 

Cheers,

- JJ.

[504 Wolverine]

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee/forums/a/tpc/f/38610606/m/3561015334

 

If you are PSYOP, as I think you are, then you were already told that the SU-27S cannot carry the R-77, it does not have the autocannon feature and although we are missing the datalink feature (R:E: between fellow flankers, AWACS style) it cannot fire missiles "silently" via AWAC's guidance. Missiles can only be fired with onboard radar or EOS.

 

Flanker 1 was a game compared to Lock-on.

[Maverick-90]

how long will old games make ppl think that everything in it was 100% correct? and that the follow-ups (word?) are wrong....even if the info has been a little more declassified?

[britgliderpilot]

Ah, the inestimable Mr Mongoose did indeed post a link to - he said - a training manual which PROVED one of the Russky aircraft had an autoguns system.

 

 

But the link didn't work and he took his bat home in disgust :P

 

 

There's apparently no mention of it in either the declassified Su27S manual, or the declassified MiG manual, though, so . . . . . . shrug.

[Alfa]

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee/forums/a/tpc/f/38610606/m/3561015334

 

If you are PSYOP, as I think you are, then you were already told that the SU-27S cannot carry the R-77, it does not have the autocannon feature and although we are missing the datalink feature (R:E: between fellow flankers, AWACS style) it cannot fire missiles "silently" via AWAC's guidance. Missiles can only be fired with onboard radar or EOS.

 

.....and the R-27T/R-27TE has no datalink for midcourse guidance.

 

Yes I think that about covers it :) .

 

The Fulcrum gets R-77s with it's weaker radar, but the Flanker doesn't? What gives?

 

Reality :) . Neither the Su-27S, Su-33 or MiG-29(9-12) support the R-77 - in fact nor does the Su-30(a pure interceptor version with the same WCS as the Su-27/Su-33) - but for some reason ED decided to depict it with the capabilities of the upgraded "Su-30KN" in Lock-on although only a single prototype of this aircraft exists. The only Fulcrum and Flanker versions in Lock-on capable of supporting the R-77 are the MiG-29S and Su-34 respectively.

 

As far as "presumed realism" and the Flankers being "castrated" goes - the "presumed realism" was what we had in Flanker 1x and 2x - what we have in Lock-on is "approximated realism", which in turn means that the Flankers so far have only been "sterilised", while "actual realism" may come in the future.......this would be the point where they will become "castrated" :D .

 

Declassified manuals and documentation for both the MiG-29 and Su-27 have come to light since the days of the Flanker series, and there are much fewer presumptions left to make because of it ;) .

 

Cheers,

- JJ.

[Guest VolkVoland]

If you are PSYOP, as I think you are, then you were already told that the SU-27S cannot carry the R-77, it does not have the autocannon feature and although we are missing the datalink feature (R:E: between fellow flankers, AWACS style) it cannot fire missiles "silently" via AWAC's guidance. Missiles can only be fired with onboard radar or EOS.

 

Flanker 1 was a game compared to Lock-on.

 

Hi (504) Wolverine, you are correct, I had to re-register and chose a screen name Russians can understand.

 

The R-27 Izdieliye 470 entered production phase in 1986 and is now Russia's primary intermediate-range missile in air-to-air missile category. The first service versions of the missile were semi-active radar homing missile R-27R (Alamo-B) and infrared missile R-27T (Alamo-A). Both versions use inertial guidance with data link commands from the launching aircraft in the first phase of the flight.

 

http://home.sci.fi/~fta/ruaf-3-8.htm

 

Datalink=target data=inertial guidance fed to missile by launching platform. Yep.

 

I coevered more in deapth here;

 

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=400102&f=38610606&m=2351076154&r=6801030254#6801030254

 

britgliderpilot, please stop spreading disinformation, personal attacks and flame war instigation. Please find it in your self to be civil and polite. Thank you.

 

Ah, the inestimable Mr Mongoose did indeed post a link to - he said - a training manual which PROVED one of the Russky aircraft had an autoguns system.

But the link didn't work and he took his bat home in disgust

 

I have never referenced the auto guns mode mentioned in the manual I've shared. I clearly posted that all questions regarding the manual are to be emaild to the FPBworkshop@gmail box I have set up just for that purpuse, exactly do to the type of behavior you are displaying.

 

I have reveied emails from forum members that sucsesfully downloaded the full pdf, and if the link did not work for you do not assume or claim that it was a fake. I still have the manuel and will happily share with anybody who askes for it.

 

Again, I plead to civility.

 

Since everybody is alway talking about "Declassified manuals and documentation for both the MiG-29 and Su-27 have come to light since the days of the Flanker series", please direct me to their source and I'll be very intersetd in taking a look.

 

Where can I find the manuals in question?

 

Reality . Neither the Su-27S, Su-33 or MiG-29(9-12) support the R-77 - in fact nor does the Su-30(a pure interceptor version with the same WCS as the Su-27/Su-33) - but for some reason ED decided to depict it with the capabilities of the upgraded "Su-30KN" in Lock-on although only a single prototype of this aircraft exists. The only Fulcrum and Flanker versions in Lock-on capable of supporting the R-77 are the MiG-29S and Su-34 respectively.

 

Red_lightning1, please let me know what your sources are in regards to Su-27KM (SU-33M).

 

This is what I have so far;

 

The Su-27KM (Su-33M) is a proposed upgrade of the Su-27K similar to the Su-27M upgrade. The upgraded fire control system enables the fighter to deploy the latest RVV-AE (R-77) air-to-air missile and guided air-to-surface weapons, including laser and TV guided missiles and the Moskit heavy anti-ship missile.

 

http://www.milavia.net/aircraft/su-33/su-33.htm

 

This is an article back from 2000,

 

http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htairfo/articles/20000108.aspx

 

Su-27KM: A prototype of a new carrier fighter, basically an Su-33 with the Su-35 weapons,

 

So is it still a prototype or not? Because http://www.aerospaceweb.org/aircraft/fighter/su33/ lists it as R-77 capable.

 

SU-33 ARMAMENT:

 

Air-to-Air Missile R-27/AA-10 Alamo, R-73/AA-11 Archer, R-77/AA-1

 

So what is the current status of the SU-33M? I'm eager to know. Thank you.

[upyr1]

Ah, the inestimable Mr Mongoose did indeed post a link to - he said - a training manual which PROVED one of the Russky aircraft had an autoguns system.

 

 

But the link didn't work and he took his bat home in disgust :P

 

 

There's apparently no mention of it in either the declassified Su27S manual, or the declassified MiG manual, though, so . . . . . . shrug.

 

Since I never usedthe autogun feature any how, in real life dose any AC have it or is this just a cold war era rumor that Falcon 3 help propegate.

IMHO it looked like it would just be a waste of ammo.

[Alfa]

 

http://home.sci.fi/~fta/ruaf-3-8.htm

 

Datalink=target data=inertial guidance fed to missile by launching platform. Yep.

 

Nope - don't believe everything you read on the internet ;) . The R-27T/TE do not have a datalink - they are pure IR homers and require the seekerhead to lock on to target before they can be launched.

 

Red_lightning1, please let me know what your sources are in regards to Su-27KM (SU-33M).

 

"Su-27KM" or "Su-33M" is an aircraft that doesn't exist and never did. There were some plans to upgrade the Su-33, but they never materialised......

 

So is it still a prototype or not? Because http://www.aerospaceweb.org/aircraft/fighter/su33/ lists it as R-77 capable.

 

.....not even in prototype form and the Su-33 never supported the R-77.

 

So what is the current status of the SU-33M? I'm eager to know. Thank you.

 

Again...no status :) . The closest you can come to an "Su-33M" is the Su-27KUB - this is a new two-seat development over the Su-33, which does feature new avionics and a WCS supporting the R-77 and varies ASMs.

 

Here is a site with some pictures of this aircraft.. http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/flankers_pages/su-27kub.htm

....at the bottom of the page there is even a photo showing the antenna of its new radar(Zhuk-MS).

 

Cheers,

- JJ.

[Guest IguanaKing]

LOL...that http://home.sci.fi/~fta/ruaf-3-8.htm link even says that that version of the R-27 is a radar-guided missile. That's the first screw-up in their "expertise". They also seem to be confused as to what datalink and inertial guidance are, as they seem to suggest that they are the same thing...and no, Mongoose, they are not the same thing. The whole point behind inertial guidance is to do so WITHOUT external signals. Oh well...I guess the domain name of that link should have been the first clue. :thumbup:

[Vekkinho]

Hi peeps,

 

Neither the Su-27S, Su-33 or MiG-29(9-12) support the R-77

That's correct Alfa, but MiG-29 (9-12) supports R-27T and it can't be selected in 9-12 default payload. I'm talking of Russian MiGs... German MiG-29G is nothing but a 9-12 with imperial units and it supports R-27T. This should be corrected in original MEInit.xml in Black Shark.

 

One more thing:

Fulcrum A should be 9-12 model as it is but it should have MiG-29B designation. MiG-29A was also 9-12 but it had small ventral fins like Flanker and its nose wheel was slightly moved forward (right beneath the canopy) and it was same nose wheel taken from MiG-23 Flogger...

 

So, another slight modification of proper designations can be taken in account.

 

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong,

 

Nostroviye!