Ktulu2 Posted July 22, 2016 Posted July 22, 2016 I'd take a good RWR over the 21's radar anyday though ;) I do DCS videos on youtube : https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCAs8VxtXRJHZLnKS4mKunnQ?view_as=public
BodyOrgan Posted July 22, 2016 Posted July 22, 2016 Lol, on the other side theyre saying they had to ram you because the missiles refuse to lock on to the magic stealth ka50. Haha Sent while I should be working instead. This would have been an acceptable had the Mirage not gone on to engage friendlies.... da fuq?!? I'd take a good RWR over the 21's radar anyday though ;) I would take an RWR over the Ka-50's radar any day... wait a minute... I must have drawn the short straw somewhere.
Beeroshima Posted July 22, 2016 Posted July 22, 2016 This would have been an acceptable had the Mirage not gone on to engage friendlies.... da fuq?!? I would take an RWR over the Ka-50's radar any day... wait a minute... I must have drawn the short straw somewhere. You guys had a ka50 blowing up friendlies last night. What was up with that? Sent while I should be working instead.
NaCH Posted July 22, 2016 Posted July 22, 2016 I'd take a good RWR over the 21's radar anyday though ;) This+++++
BodyOrgan Posted July 22, 2016 Posted July 22, 2016 You guys had a ka50 blowing up friendlies last night. What was up with that? Sent while I should be working instead. Yes, but not after smashing into other aircraft. Anyway, this is getting derailed. Original point, F-5E on Redfor starting bases over M2K.
Beeroshima Posted July 22, 2016 Posted July 22, 2016 Body, should we give it more than 6 hours post patch to see if the F5 is even viable or just say screw it and stick it in there? Sent while I should be working instead.
OperatorJack Posted July 22, 2016 Posted July 22, 2016 If anyone on blue wants me to move over I'll take bribes in the form of enough money for the F-5E :music_whistling: /да бойз/ [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
BodyOrgan Posted July 22, 2016 Posted July 22, 2016 Body, should we give it more than 6 hours post patch to see if the F5 is even viable or just say screw it and stick it in there? Sent while I should be working instead. The other option is to put the Mig-29 on Bluefor starting bases. Either works, but I'd rather see the F-5 if it's working.
Beeroshima Posted July 22, 2016 Posted July 22, 2016 The third option is to wait and see how viable the F5 is before making it your basis of balance. That's what I'm saying. Sent while I should be working instead.
BodyOrgan Posted July 22, 2016 Posted July 22, 2016 The third option is to wait and see how viable the F5 is before making it your basis of balance. That's what I'm saying. Sent while I should be working instead. So you're saying the Mig-21 is balanced against the M2K?
Beeroshima Posted July 22, 2016 Posted July 22, 2016 No. Im not saying that. Are you saying that Mig29s are balanced compared to f4's? What im saying is, we might find out in 3 hours that the F5 can't load fuel...or that it can't load missiles...or any of the other shit that happens on day 1 release. Sent while I should be working instead.
Beeroshima Posted July 22, 2016 Posted July 22, 2016 So you're saying the Mig-21 is balanced against the M2K? You saying that ka50 vs huey/gazelle is balanced? Sent while I should be working instead.
levanoga Posted July 22, 2016 Posted July 22, 2016 So you're saying the Mig-21 is balanced against the M2K? F-15 against SU-27 M-2000 against MiG-29 MiG-21 against the F-5 ( once its fixed )
Beeroshima Posted July 22, 2016 Posted July 22, 2016 F-15 against SU-27 M-2000 against MiG-29 MiG-21 against the F-5 ( once its fixed ) This is a proposition I could live with, at first glance, but, although I own both, im not skilled in the m2k or fish. I'm asking here. How does the Mig21 perform comparatively with the 21? Sent while I should be working instead.
BodyOrgan Posted July 22, 2016 Posted July 22, 2016 No. Im not saying that. Are you saying that Mig29s are balanced compared to f4's? What im saying is, we might find out in 3 hours that the F5 can't load fuel...or that it can't load missiles...or any of the other shit that happens on day 1 release. Sent while I should be working instead. It isn't a Mig-29S it's a Mig-29A, and for all intents and purposes they are balanced. The Mig-29A has the same weapon restrictions as the playable craft as does the F-4E. In case you haven't realized the AI doesn't play by the rules with its flight model, so BuddySpike is more than welcome to throw in an F-16A if that's what you want. The threat from our point of view is the missiles not the aircraft. The reason we were upgraded to the Mig-29A is because the Mig-23 wasn't capable of carrying even the restricted weapons of the playable aircraft. You saying that ka50 vs huey/gazelle is balanced? Sent while I should be working instead. Last I recall the Gazelle could call in airstrikes which will destroy up to 10 targets, and then it has 4 HOT 3 missiles. On top of that its RWR will let it know if it's been detected, so the pilot can hide.
Beeroshima Posted July 22, 2016 Posted July 22, 2016 I wasn't asking for an F-16. I was merely pointing out asymmetrical balance. Furthermore, despite what you are intent on instigating, my only point is that the F5 isn't ready to be implemented 3 hours after it's patched into the game. Sent while I should be working instead.
Beeroshima Posted July 22, 2016 Posted July 22, 2016 You need to get over this concept that I want F-22 on blue blue fighting hang gliders on red Sent while I should be working instead.
BodyOrgan Posted July 22, 2016 Posted July 22, 2016 You need to get over this concept that I want F-22 on blue blue fighting hang gliders on red Sent while I should be working instead. So the truth comes out.
Beeroshima Posted July 22, 2016 Posted July 22, 2016 So the truth comes out. ;) Sent while I should be working instead.
Beeroshima Posted July 22, 2016 Posted July 22, 2016 What I was asking is if the mig 23 or 21 as AI interceptors would be a better match for the F5 in lieu of f4's vs 29s. It was a legit question to which the answer may very well be "no". F16's had no place in the conversation. Sent while I should be working instead.
BodyOrgan Posted July 22, 2016 Posted July 22, 2016 What I was asking is if the mig 23 or 21 as AI interceptors would be a better match for the F5 in lieu of f4's vs 29s. It was a legit question to which the answer may very well be "no". F16's had no place in the conversation. Sent while I should be working instead. Not sure if you understood what I was describing earlier. The F-4E's weapons are not period correct. They are the same weapons Bluefor F-15's use, thus fighting an F-4E is the same as fighting the F-15. Of course AI, so they aren't as smart as a seasoned player. The Mig-23, and Mig-21 use period correct weapons, so you'd be pitting 1960/70's tech against an F-15 essentially. It actually used to be this way, and the Mig-23 was just cannon fodder.
microvax Posted July 22, 2016 Posted July 22, 2016 (edited) Last I recall the Gazelle could call in airstrikes which will destroy up to 10 targets, and then it has 4 HOT 3 missiles. On top of that its RWR will let it know if it's been detected, so the pilot can hide. Honestly, I fly both the KA50 and the Gazelle and I would take the KA50 over the gazelle any day. In the role of an attack helicopter. The KA50 is basically 35% faster, and has no problem what so ever to go over 3km mountains, if you want to go over that with the gazelle, you pretty much have to reduce horizontal speed to 100kph to get at least some climb rate, and even then you are operating at the risk of killing your engine. The Ka50 is beefy, it can take loads of damage, I mean its armored, the Gazelle is pretty damn fragile. The KA50 has a gun, that is superior to the HOT3 missiles in pretty much any aspect, unless you are engaging the bunkers. [both ammunition count, movable mount, lead compensation, especially against air targets, the gun only is better then 4 hot missiles by far. Even just a Clip of AP ammo is probably better then the 4HOTs.] The KA50 has 12 Vikhrs, ATGMs which have a range surpassing any SAM system we have in blueflag atm, which are pretty damn good anti heli missiles, can be fired from the move, can be guided while turning 25 degrees away from the target and are pretty much twice as fast. The KA50 has two S8kom launchers, if you are good with them you can take out 2 bunkers and a white house with them. The KA50 has surpreme SA considering SAM systems => ABRIS. The KA50 can carry out strikes on its own, it does not need friendly CAP to dedicate resources to cover a B1 going in at high altitude. Lets say the KA50 and Gazelle are even if you consider time to destroy 10 targets, or maybee the gazelle is even faster, although I honestly doubt that, the B1 takes a while to spawn/get there. After the B1 has hit the target, there is a substantial cool down and afaik you cant have two b1s flying at the same time, so given you have the same CAP as the Gazelle needs to do its job, the KA50 can do the same thing. I admit the RWR is nice and I would give an arm and a leg to have it in a KA50, but honestly, it doesnt safe you, it just tells you when its to late anyway. KA50 knows all the airdefenes by ABRIS, the Gazelle can only tell you if a fighter is locking you or not, there is nothing you can do about it anyways, ofc you can rtb and say "f***k this, im going home". But nobody of us would. xD I agree, that you can achieve the similar results with KA50 and Gazelle, but the Gazelle isnt in any way shape or form an balanced opponent for le KA50. EDIT: I dont want anything changed, apart from having 342l, its fine as it is. Its just not true that the gazelle is a balanced counterpart for the ka50. :D Edited July 22, 2016 by microvax [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] *unexpected flight behaviour* Oh shiii*** ! What ? Why ? What is happening ?
Beeroshima Posted July 22, 2016 Posted July 22, 2016 Sure, but that's what I'm saying. I wasnt suggesting 21/23 fight f4's. I was suggesting they be paired against f5's once they are deemed viable. I've always pictured the F5 as a fair fight. Again, I could be wrong. Total agreement that f4 vs mig 21 or 23 would be unbalanced. Sent while I should be working instead.
BodyOrgan Posted July 22, 2016 Posted July 22, 2016 The KA50 has a gun, that is superior to the HOT3 missiles in pretty much any aspect, unless you are engaging the bunkers. [both ammunition count, movable mount, lead compensation, especially against air targets, the gun only is better then 4 hot missiles by far. Even just a Clip of AP ammo is probably better then the 4HOTs.] The HOT 3 has better stand off range than the gun. Against AA targets it is better. IR SAMs will engage the Ka-50 before it's within range to use the gun. The KA50 has 12 Vikhrs, ATGMs which have a range surpassing any SAM system we have in blueflag atm, which are pretty damn good anti heli missiles, can be fired from the move, can be guided while turning 25 degrees away from the target and are pretty much twice as fast. This isn't true. The SA-8 has a longer range than the Vikhr. If you want to test this, then join Redfor, and find out today. The KA50 has surpreme SA considering SAM systems => ABRIS. What is up with this? Do you know? It's like turning fog off war off in WarCraft. The KA50 can carry out strikes on its own, it does not need friendly CAP to dedicate resources to cover a B1 going in at high altitude. Join Redfor, and try to carry out a strike against any Bluefor target without CAP, let me know how many KM you travel before you respawn. I agree, that you can achieve the similar results with KA50 and Gazelle, but the Gazelle isnt in any way shape or form an balanced opponent for le KA50. This here is what makes them functionally equivalent. EDIT: I dont want anything changed, apart from having 342l, its fine as it is. Its just not true that the gazelle is a balanced counterpart for the ka50. :D It is reasonably balanced. The BuddySpike team has made it so the Gazelle isn't far off from the Ka-50 in what it can accomplish.
microvax Posted July 22, 2016 Posted July 22, 2016 The HOT 3 has better stand off range than the gun. Against AA targets it is better. IR SAMs will engage the Ka-50 before it's within range to use the gun. This isn't true. The SA-8 has a longer range than the Vikhr. If you want to test this, then join Redfor, and find out today. What is up with this? Do you know? It's like turning fog off war off in WarCraft. Join Redfor, and try to carry out a strike against any Bluefor target without CAP, let me know how many KM you travel before you respawn. This here is what makes them functionally equivalent. It is reasonably balanced. The BuddySpike team has made it so the Gazelle isn't far off from the Ka-50 in what it can accomplish. You have to use launch overide ofc to outrange SA8. But its possible, especially if you fire on the move. Same for gun. You can pretty reliable hit targets out to 3.5km with HE, unfortunately the time fuze goes of at 4km. But with AP you can kill strelas out of their engagement range. Its possible. You spend quite some ammo, but you can finish of at least 4 with the 220 AP rounds you got. And that all while you are maneuvering, for an reliable HOT hit you pretty much have to be stationary. I dont need to join redfor to test that. :D I did roughly 3 hours of testing with 342l/m ka50 against a target area with sa8/sa13/zsu23-4 combo. You can engage sa8 with vikhr out of its firing range. Well, I get your feels, but ABRIS is part of KA50 systems, so no reason not to use it. Its the as good as it gets replacement for a missing RWR/MWS. While you can carry srikes out without CAP, done multiple times in round 6 and 7, its obviously easier with CAP. What I was referring to, Gazelle has to rely on CAP protecting the B1. If KA50 is in range, you launch and kill, done. I dunno how you can say that its balanced if its capable of achieving the same single task. Gazelle cant engage enemy helicopters for shi*** for example, while in the KA50 you pretty much have a god damn powerfull anti chopper tool. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] *unexpected flight behaviour* Oh shiii*** ! What ? Why ? What is happening ?
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