Mushy nose wheel steering response with Saitek Combat pedals?

[GeneralDynamics]

Hi everyone - when using my Saitek Combat pedals and nose wheel steering during the first part of my take off runs, up to 70 kts, the response is mushy like there's some kind of severe input smoothing going on. This causes me to constantly overcorrect and I'm all over the place before turning off nose wheel steering and finishing my takeoff roll using rudders only. The response has always been that way since day one and I've just lived with it, but now that I'm getting better at everything else over time, this is becoming more and more annoying.

 

I looked for any smoothing settings that might need to be turned off in both DCS world axis settings and in the Saitek profile editor, but I'm not finding anything.

 

Can anyone tell me if there is a way to get a more direct, positive response out of the pedals, or if that's just the way the game/pedals behave?

 

I just ordered MGF Crosswinds pedals last night, and I'm pretty stoked about that, but I don't know if they'll have the same feel during takeoff or not. Any comments on that as well?

 

Thank you!

 

EDIT: Neglected to mention this is with A-10C.

Edited August 26, 2015 by GeneralDynamics

[FeistyLemur]

Wow I want a set of those crosswind pedals now. I've been hating my Saitek pedals the last couple days. They're feeling really grungy.

[kingpinda]

Dude everything improves when using the MFG Crosswind instead of the saitek pedals :)

 

I use no curves. I do use the CAM 5 profile and spacers, but Nummer 4 or 6 would do nicely also.

 

The real kicker is that because of the profiles and when you set the desired spring strength, you will have muscle memory at some given point. Because the pressure you need to apply increases the more the rudder needs to travel, you will instinctively know what amount of pressure you need to give to receive the wanted effect.

 

No more thinking: how far have my rudder pedals traveled anymore. But just kick and feel. Just like in a car where you will know how much gas or brake you need to apply.

 

edit: but to come back to your real question... I believe the saitek pedals have a hardware deadzone.. I have had these pedals ages ago so dont hold it against me if i don't have my facts straight. The G940 pedals which I threw out the window also have a hardware deadzone.

 

The MFG Crosswinds do not! And furthermore... You can hardware calibrate the pedals!!! This is mandatory if you change the pedal angle. In other words... Because of the spring you can (not inch) but millimeter the pedals from center to either side with utter precision and depending on what CAM you use you can opt for a noticeable center or smooth center.

The one thing I have to do soon though is to hardmount it on the floor. So i can even kick a single rudder with one foot without it toppling over. In the huey you often need left rudder and sometimes keeping both feet on the rudder is tiresome. But man is it great :)

 

Edit: Milan explains the differences between the cam profiles below. I personally opted for the most realistic one (Cam 5) but 4 or 6 will suit you as well:

 

CAM4: It is voted by testers and first customers as best all around CAM. It feature very low center detendt which gives you realism and precision around center ( no "bump"). It is realistic untill you try to reach the ends of deflection becouse curve is slightly modified on the middle of deflection in order to reduce strenght at the end - not full progressive , and not linear increase in strenght. It is made as a compromise, reduced realism a bit toward the end of deflection so it's not so hard to press the pedals fully.

 

CAM5: similar to CAM4, same center detent, but has cleaner progressing increase in force toward the end of deflection. It is the most realistic CAM for piston driven planes with simple wired rudder controls. However, becouse of it's realism - to achieve end of deflection require a lot of force. If you are a PC fighter pilot for example, in the ends of deflection you will not be very precise ( arguable, but common opinion)

Pedal users that previously used „Simped's“ find this CAM too big transformation ( Simped's had only linear and very weak centering, and large center bump) . But after they get used to MFG Crosswind for 1-2 months ...they tend to go from CAM4 to CAM5 if they pursuit realism.

 

CAM6: completely different from CAM4 and 5. Feature noticable center detent , not big like on simpeds, saiteks etc, but well noticable compared to CAM4-5 ( half way in between). Toward the end of deflection it has much less progressing increase in strenght compared to CAM4,5. It is made such for two purposes :

- realisticly model forces of airliner ( adjust to very tight spring settings and outer CAM arm position)

- best compromise for precision PC dogfighting. ( very weak spring combined with inner CAM arm position). Center detent gives possibility to keep the rudder straight without concentrating - to achieve top speed. Less progressive increase in strenght gives better aiming accuracy toward the ends

Edited August 28, 2015 by kingpinda

[GeneralDynamics]

Wow, kingpinda, thanks for the great writeup on the Crosswinds. I'll definitely be referring back to your post once they arrive, "sometime" next month hopefully.

 

Maybe the problem is the hardware deadzone on the Saitek pedals, but it feels more to me like it's input lag or something along those lines. I start rolling, and start veering off to the left a little bit for instance, so I give a little right rudder... nothing... a little more... nothing... a smidge more and then UGHHH! Too much! And I end up veering off to the right of the center line. Then the whole process starts again trying to get back to the left and I end up over compensating again, the end result being that I look like a drunk trying to take off until I get a little speed up and disengage NWS. Maybe if I did a few shots before climbing into the seat I could take off straight! :-) Again, it seems more like a delayed reaction to the pedal input, and once it finally starts to react, it's too much at that point. Then again, maybe it's a combination of both hardware dead zone AND lag. Whatever it is, it's a royal pain.

 

In retrospect, I should just wait for the Crosswinds to arrive and go from there rather than bugging people on the forum over the Saiteks since they're going away eventually anyhow. I got so frustrated last night, I posted the thread today without thinking it through. But, I do have your excellent post to refer back to later when the Crosswinds do finally arrive. Thanks again.

[FeistyLemur]

They sound really great. Except for the two problems. The price, and being ordered from Europe.

 

As for the Saitek, theyr'e cheap I guess. That should be their new company slogan. "Saitek, it's cheap. (relatively)"

[kingpinda]

Yes FeistyLemur they are quite expensive. But they fill the gap perfectly between simpeds, saitek whatever... and the pedals that cost 1500 dollars or more!

 

Its a lot of money for a a device with 3 axes but boy do I smile when I fly :)

 

The upside though is, that these units are build to last. Great aftersales contact with Milan from Croatia. An issue had crept through quality control and he offered me to replace the parts if they werent functioning as expected, a partial refund or different cam profiles and spacers. I tested my device and the problem was purely aestetic so Milan shipped me the spacers and the CAM 5 profile for free.

 

Milan has mentioned in the past that beyond the warranty he will always make parts if needed. Not that they would break in 20 years I think because they are really build to last but who knows what happens and then you can order the broken parts.

 

Even if he stops production he will post all the information online so we can make our own spare parts.

 

I can't wait what he will eventually think of next :) This guy is a genious when building sim stuff :)

 

@GeneralDynamics: you lucky sod!!! I had to wait 5 months for my unit :)

[GeneralDynamics]

@kingpinda: LOL! Well, Milan's website said current orders were shipping in September, but that remains to be seen:-)

[Rogue Trooper]

Kingpinda said it all really and gave a top notch cam review too.

Prepare for the re-evaluation of the warthogs quality, from day one it will start to bug you and will get worse from that day on (except for the warthog grip of course as that is truly sublime).

[kingpinda]

Kingpinda said it all really and gave a top notch cam review too.

Prepare for the re-evaluation of the warthogs quality, from day one it will start to bug you and will get worse from that day on (except for the warthog grip of course as that is truly sublime).

 

 

The information about the cam profiles is copy/pasted from Milan's pdf.

[Sporg]

Hi everyone - when using my Saitek Combat pedals and nose wheel steering during the first part of my take off runs, up to 70 kts, the response is mushy like there's some kind of severe input smoothing going on. This causes me to constantly overcorrect and I'm all over the place before turning off nose wheel steering and finishing my takeoff roll using rudders only. The response has always been that way since day one and I've just lived with it, but now that I'm getting better at everything else over time, this is becoming more and more annoying.

 

I looked for any smoothing settings that might need to be turned off in both DCS world axis settings and in the Saitek profile editor, but I'm not finding anything.

 

Can anyone tell me if there is a way to get a more direct, positive response out of the pedals, or if that's just the way the game/pedals behave?

 

EDIT: Neglected to mention this is with A-10C.

 

I had the same behaviour, but I mostly fixed it by adding some deadzone in the A-10C axis settings.

I think it is due to the Saitek pedals having some jitter around the centre.

 

I added just enough deadzone to keep the jitter within, and then just give enough gentle pedal input to get out of this deadzone when rolling/taxiing.

[GeneralDynamics]

Kingpinda said it all really and gave a top notch cam review too.

Prepare for the re-evaluation of the warthogs quality, from day one it will start to bug you and will get worse from that day on (except for the warthog grip of course as that is truly sublime).

 

@RogueTrooper My apologies if I'm a bit dense and missing something - is there a problem with the TM Warthog quality? That's the one thing in my pit I've been satisfied with thus far, except for maybe the center bump on the stick, and I just ordered a 10 cm extension to deal with that as well:-)

[GeneralDynamics]

I had the same behaviour, but I mostly fixed it by adding some deadzone in the A-10C axis settings.

I think it is due to the Saitek pedals having some jitter around the centre.

 

I added just enough deadzone to keep the jitter within, and then just give enough gentle pedal input to get out of this deadzone when rolling/taxiing.

 

Thanks Sporg - I set deadzone to 2 and that does seem to help some.

[Rogue Trooper]

Sorry for the delay in responding GeneralDynamics.

No I have no problem with the warthog.

The extension goes a very long way to addressing this sticks center problem.

 

What I meant is that the MFGs are simply in a different league of quality that is all.

I think the hallmark of superb design is when it becomes difficult to find anything to moan about or nit pick and I find it hard to find any problems or wants with the MFGs.

Just ensure you have something to mount them on as they are light.