A message to devs.

[Shaman]

Okey.. feeding the thread, R-27R and R-27ERs are to easy to spoof with chaff as well! They 1-2 chaffs and they all miss, they stink, man. :protest:

Have fun!

:joystick:

[Pilotasso]

I fly both Russian and F-15 planes. And experience tells me that the Mig for example is nearly invisible in visual range and its R-77's hit more often because not only they are faster but also because they can be shot on EOS and turn active 2 secs before impact. As for the Su-27/33, they can dodge AMRAAM frontaly and keep pressing you all the way, untill either maddog an R-27ET or the enemy runs away while voleys of R-27's depletes his countermeasures, time at wich it is easy to kill them with the russians missiles tremendous standoff capability.

 

90% of the times I fly in 504 server its members force me to have a dodge on their missiles before I can shoot my first missile. most of times I get 1 kill for all of my 8 missiles load if any at all.

You should try this exercise to see finaly the big picture.

[3Sqn_Sven]

Well I've been in the same server and I'm seeing very different results. At 1 minute past midnight this saturday (UTC/London time) 169th server will be running its BVR map again with participation of all 169th members. Come along and we'll try it out. I'll be a 15, you be a Su and if you can get me without dodging my shots then hats off to you and we'll swap it around, I'd love to see this for myself. If we're both on before then we can give it a go sooner.

 

Peace out c u then

 

BTW I know what you are talking about WRT not being able to see the mig. Turn off AA, it looks crapper but you can see a/c much better! 1024x768 on my 19inch is a pretty close estimation to how far I can see a/c when I'm flying.

[Pilotasso]

I always have AA off (old GFX) and a 19" monitor and I still cant see them unless they make wing contrail, or fire missiles or flares.

 

About the match online, well I can tell you I only fly Su on the 504 server when it is predictable Ill end up 1 on 1 BVR fight basicaly (because I desperatly try to get a team organized but they preffer doing their own thing). Against a team, and to avoid getting blind for everyone else but my target I use the F-15. This is why I use it most of the time. when the 504 menbers drop in, they realy play like a team and often I shoot all my load and be forced to turn tail when I watch an ambush in progress. Agains the 169 flying the SU usualy I end up chasing 1 single target into an ambush of multiple hidden bandits so the play here is not dependent on missiles only. Theres so much missiles I can dodge when boxed in.

 

We were merely comparing fighters per se, if you want to picture the usual team tactics then it means little, in wich, the plane one flies, if hes flying in a team that is not organized VS another that will use a decoy target even if against that target, I may or may not best him out at BVR but as I said then it is not much relevant, because who will try to shoot me for real wont be him but rather 2, 3 or 4 others at the same time. Then the discussion we had becomes a moot point.

[Allochtoon]

I always have AA off (old GFX) and a 19" monitor and I still cant see them unless they make wing contrail, or fire missiles or flares.

 

About the match online, well I can tell you I only fly Su on the 504 server when it is predictable Ill end up 1 on 1 BVR fight basicaly (because I desperatly try to get a team organized but they preffer doing their own thing). Against a team, and to avoid getting blind for everyone else but my target I use the F-15. This is why I use it most of the time. when the 504 menbers drop in, they realy play like a team and often I shoot all my load and be forced to turn tail when I watch an ambush in progress. Agains the 169 flying the SU usualy I end up chasing 1 single target into an ambush of multiple hidden bandits so the play here is not dependent on missiles only. Theres so much missiles I can dodge when boxed in.

 

We were merely comparing fighters per se, if you want to picture the usual team tactics then it means little, in wich, the plane one flies, if hes flying in a team that is not organized VS another that will use a decoy target even if against that target, I may or may not best him out at BVR but as I said then it is not much relevant, because who will try to shoot me for real wont be him but rather 2, 3 or 4 others at the same time. Then the discussion we had becomes a moot point.

 

How about EOS vs only f15s?

[Pilotasso]

In 1.12a you can lock up a bandit that is afterburning (running away from you) at almost 100Km. A frontal lock in the same IR conditions youll get a lock up untill 20Km. If the target is cruising youll lock up at 10Km with EOS.

 

This is where the running eagles get toasted specialy if they think they have gotten away and decide turn back into the fight. usualy an R-27ET aquires immidiatly and is thrown at him at its max kinetic range and he'll never know untill he gets it in the face.

 

Very nasty.

[Shaman]

I fly both Russian and F-15 planes.

:lol:

Yeah, I must confirm. I've seen you once taking a MiG and a Su when there were no eagles left.

 

Have you ever figured out why there's not a single Fulcrum or Flanker boy that complains so much? I'll tell you right now. It's because you are not flying them ;)

[Pilotasso]

:lol:

Yeah, I must confirm. I've seen you once taking a MiG and a Su when there were no eagles left.

 

Have you ever figured out why there's not a single Fulcrum or Flanker boy that complains so much? I'll tell you right now. It's because you are not flying them ;)

 

Oh no? You force me into some shamelss bragging. :D

 

Highest Score goes to Pilotasso. Congratulations with 89 Points

 

Highest number of Enemy Kills also goes to Pilotasso with a whopping 160 fighter kills.

 

And finally Congratulations once again to Pilotasso for an awesome effort in the Su-33 Kill Ratio with 3.38

 

Ladder will be reset for the month of May and we will freeze the current scores and archive them.

 

Once they finish the archive stats board youll see how many Su-33 I got compared to the F-15. I fly LOTS other servers you know, not just yours. Its your maps, your team tactics that dictate my choices. And yeah if the F-15 is out for your server missions Ill get the flanker, youll see Im just as confortable with it as any other fighter and play them on any server. Wich is alot more than I can say from you :music_whistling: ;)

 

P.S. no squad bashing intended, just proving my point.

[GGTharos]

Read the Russian forums. PLenty of complaining there.

[Pilotasso]

Well once they fix that low altitude 0% PK for all radar missiles, and clutter sensitivity on ARH missiles they cant complain much more. After all, what are they expecting from missile technology wich is generations behind that of the AMRAAM? Russian Flankers are stuck with R-27's and Its proven that they havent score much in the past against targets of the same standards as those hit by AMRAAMs.

[Shaman]

Yep, that's bragging, I wouldn't expect anything else from you. Only the third line is interesting. I don't even want to guess how many of those kills were done by Su-33 ;) hehehe. Well, have fun, like all of us do, but quit complaining in every single thread of this kind like the original poster did.

[Force_Feedback]

Read the Russian forums. PLenty of complaining there.

 

The difference is you don't get such answers ^ there.

When the devs can't do something they say there like: "Yeah, that is great, but we can't do that right now" and everybody says: "Ok bro, we understand and support you, you're not bad, peace".

 

Here it's like: "Oh, piss off, we're busy with something else, and don't have time to listen you all whine" and get replies like: "Meh, why oh why won't you do this and that? I hate you, you suck ass".

 

So there is a little nuanced difference

[Shaman]

After all, what are they expecting from missile technology wich is generations behind that of the AMRAAM? Russian Flankers are stuck with R-27's and Its proven that they havent score much in the past against targets of the same standards as those hit by AMRAAMs.

By they, you probably mean us - armchair flanker pilots. So you know how it is? We don't expect anything, really. I don't care if it's gonna be nerfed or changed for better. I just play the damn game when I feel like it and do whatever I can to shot down the enemy. And to confirm what you are saying conflict between Ethiopia and Eritrea to surprise of all russian missile designers shown that R-27R missile is in fact... well...somebody has to say it: crap.

I don't know if since then they've noticably improved the next serial versions of this missiles to increase their hit-ratio (maybe someone is willing to do some research?); but I know that AIM-7s (at least the early ones) were close to bad.

It's kinda diffrent in LockOn from my experience, where this missiles (AIM-7s) seem to be very good! I'd load F-15C with AIM-7s in multiplayer if I were you :D Ah, I know - this is completely against the spam&run tactics, doesn't it :doh: But I know you do have AIM-7s with you. I think you also find this missile more successfull (in LockOn) then AIM-120, right?

At the end I must add that the coolest air to air missile in LockOn is.... [drums] Vikhr! oh yeah.

[Pilotasso]

And to confirm what you are saying conflict between Ethiopia and Eritrea to surprise of all russian missile designers shown that R-27R missile is in fact... well...somebody has to say it: crap.

 

yep, I was thinking about that, but then yeah, the russian R-27 missiles in LOMAC probably have higher PK, and will continue to do so after the seekers are fixed. The point here is that there should be no room to advocate that it should be much better than it is taking out the bugs of course. Nothing more than this.

 

It's kinda diffrent in LockOn from my experience, where this missiles (AIM-7s) seem to be very good! I'd load F-15C with AIM-7s in multiplayer if I were you :D Ah, I know - this is completely against the spam&run tactics, doesn't it :doh: But I know you do have AIM-7s with you. I think you also find this missile more successfull (in LockOn) then AIM-120, right?

At the end I must add that the coolest air to air missile in LockOn is.... [drums] Vikhr! oh yeah.

 

Well the AIM-7's your referring to are probably AIM-7F's wich are from vietnam era and probably the same tech level as the R-27R. The AIM-7M's wich are tho one modeled in LOMAC are however significantly better because they introduce solid state electronics and datalink. Ingame thay are nearly as good as the r-27 series but with much reduced range compared to the ER and EM's. This might lead to the russian birds drivers to believe they are better than they should be for the simple reason they are shot much closer when the enemy has less room and time for notching and beaming, or something else that could go wrong. Otherwise I see them miss as much to chaff and clutter as the r-27's. One thing that the r-27's can do that the Sparrow cant is to make HOJ pure kills, again because the missile can reach the target sooner than it can burn through. Its dangerous for the enmy aircraft to have ECM on all the time. ;)

[Shaman]

Well the AIM-7's your referring to are probably AIM-7F's wich are from vietnam era and probably the same tech level as the R-27R. The AIM-7M's wich are tho one modeled in LOMAC are however significantly better because they introduce solid state electronics and datalink.

Well, R-27 looks like a bit later design, anyway it entered service in the 80-ties. I'd count that R-27 designers have also improved their missile with years, lots of brand new series were entering service in the 90'. I guess these surely had been upgraded - I don't think its constructors would ignore data from EvE conflict.

[GGTharos]

I'm pretty sure the R-27 was a good missile in its time. The problem, AFAIK, is that it hasn't been improved/updated for a -long- time. To be more exact, no new missiles have been nought in significant quantity for a decade or two.

 

The Sparrow as used in GF1 was reportedly quite successful while being fired at extreme ranges (ie. Rmax)

 

I think the E-E conflict is more proof of a stagnant, old war arsenal than the true performance capability of the 27.

 

Undoubtedly this missile is not and should not be as maneuverable as the AMRAAM, nor as accurate, and I think the warhead size is, for the most part, testament to this when it comes to AA missiles. Warhead size seems to be proportional to expected miss distance rather than anything else.

 

Modern missiles seem to exhibit a 'shrinking warhead' tendency, and it makes sense if you think about it - if you can make the weapon more accurate, you can reduce warhead size, increase the size of something else (rocket?) or just leave the weapon lighter.

 

This directly translates to cost savings: Fewer materials, less storage space, less fuel burned transporting the weapons, ability to transport weapons in greater quantities - the fuel economy thing applies to fighters as well.

 

In addition, the weapon's accuracy combined with a 1st look - 1st shot ability means clear tactical advantage which again translates to huge cost savings via avoiding a battle of attrition (ie. last one standing wins ... ) and allows you to preserve your forces in the air which -in turn- allows your air forces to support your ground forces much better.

 

 

And so on.

 

Enter the R-77 ... a missile you should respect. The inferior to the modern AMRAAM, but don't let that fool you: It isn't a missile you want fired at you.

[3Sqn_Sven]

I always have AA off (old GFX) and a 19" monitor and I still cant see them unless they make wing contrail, or fire missiles or flares.

 

About the match online, well I can tell you I only fly Su on the 504 server when it is predictable Ill end up 1 on 1 BVR fight basicaly (because I desperatly try to get a team organized but they preffer doing their own thing). Against a team, and to avoid getting blind for everyone else but my target I use the F-15. This is why I use it most of the time. when the 504 menbers drop in, they realy play like a team and often I shoot all my load and be forced to turn tail when I watch an ambush in progress. Agains the 169 flying the SU usualy I end up chasing 1 single target into an ambush of multiple hidden bandits so the play here is not dependent on missiles only. Theres so much missiles I can dodge when boxed in.

 

We were merely comparing fighters per se, if you want to picture the usual team tactics then it means little, in wich, the plane one flies, if hes flying in a team that is not organized VS another that will use a decoy target even if against that target, I may or may not best him out at BVR but as I said then it is not much relevant, because who will try to shoot me for real wont be him but rather 2, 3 or 4 others at the same time. Then the discussion we had becomes a moot point.

 

 

Fine we can 1v1 it then next time we're both online

[Pilotasso]

you bet, a friendly match then.