Training/learning campaigns or how to get better at DCS

[derodo]

Hi there,

 

I've been playing DCS for quite a while now; started back in the days of LOMAC, which was the sim that got me "in". Never was a good combat pilot (nor am I now), but I enjoy learning how to handle the jets, the startup procedures, the avionics, the vistas, taking off, landing, and shooting some easy targets from time to time.

 

I'm still flying it (specially since OB 1.5). Purchased a few modules (FC3 + P51 + Hawk) and I'm loving it. But never had the courage to try any of the campaigns.

 

I always liked the SU27, and I spent quite a few hours learning it, but mostly solo. Setting up my own missions to test things out, reading the manual, the forums, watching videos, etc.

 

But yet, I'm hardly able to beat any of the non-training-missions/campaings that come with FC3. Never tried the campaigns before because I knew they were probably too much for me. And it turned out to be the case. I tried yesterday, for the first time, the SU27 campaign "Fortress Mozdok" and...well...the two first missions are way too easy. Almost nothing to do.

 

But then comes the third one...and I don't event know where to start. I mean, I do, or I should, but I'm completely overwhelmed knowing there gonna be hostile airborne targets + AAA + SAMs at some point...I only tried once and got shot down by an SAM.

 

Didn't try again yet (I will), but my feeling is that the campaing does not progress "linearly"; it kind of starts with two dummy missions, and then jump into something much more complicated (at least for my skill level).

 

So it's probably me (I told you before I'm quite a bad combat pilot), but I still miss some sort of "traning campaign", like the one that comes with the P51, that has a more "linear" progression, and is quite easy to follow in the beginning; and it gets more and more complicated as you get by.

 

Is there anything out there like that for any other airfraft? Something that starts with basic things; cold start, taxi, take off, then get to basic combat employment, etc. then aproach thinks like planning the mission, BFM, tactics, etc. Everything in one single, linear, progressive package/campaign.

 

Or maybe what I need is a book? Or more learning material? Or maybe I just have to go on-line and get trained with real people that know all these things...where do I start?

[Ultra]

Don't get discouraged! It often seems like I do better in Multiplayer than I do in single player missions. A lot of times the AI is no joke. And for the record I'd put my skill level as: Very Average. :)

 

Edit: (forgot to answer the actual question)

 

I feel if you know the basics, then Multiplayer can be very very helpful. As long as you find some nice people to help you, which aren't hard to find if you look. I personally can't think of anything exactly linear, but wait for other people to answer since I'm sure there is some stuff out there.

Edited November 3, 2015 by Ultra

[CommDante]

Most packages come with interactive tutorials. The old FC3 ones however only have videos ...

 

There are also documentations for every plane hidden away in eg. .\DCS World\Mods\aircraft\Flaming Cliffs\Doc

 

I think easiest is to make some simple missions yourself. Incase of the SU-27:

One on the ground, where you can do a full startup, taxi, take off, circle around and land again.

 

another with some planes in the air (as well as your own, save time while training), and set in the mission editor with no weapons on the enemy and set so they won't shoot back ... these will be your target practise 'drones'. Take as many different missiles as you can to try them out.

 

Then with the manual in hand (tip: use you tablet/phone/2nd monitor orso for the manuals) just try stuff out in a relaxed environment...and get to know the plane, it's weapons and weapon systems etc.

Also, download the tutorials ingame, if you haven't already ... they'll be in .\DCS World\Mods\aircraft\Flaming Cliffs\Missions\EN\Training for easier watching (and eg manual next to it etc.)

 

After that, try the campaign again. ;)

Edited November 3, 2015 by CommDante

[John C Flett]

I'd second what CommDante suggested. Use the mission editor. Create your own missions and use a building block approach.

 

Depending on your experience work your way up through various skills; BFM, gun fighting, heat seekers, missile avoidance etc. until you have the confidence on each individual aspect of your chosen plane.

 

When I was first getting to grips with DCS ( or LOMAC, I forget when ) I could handle a lot of the elements but SAMS and missiles would overwhelm me. I set myself up a mission where I was airborne just beyond the range of a basic SAM. I kept flying into its range and getting shot down. It didn't matter, I could restart and try again in seconds. Eventually I stopped getting shot down ( usually ). Then I improved the defences and tried again.

 

After a time I was happy with missile avoidance and evasion. Do the same for whatever you feel you need to work on.

 

Also, there are plenty of good resources online to answer most questions and offer tactics. Reading and watching videos can be just as useful as time spent in the cockpit.

 

Mostly just don't be afraid to keep repeating until it becomes second nature.

[derodo]

Thanks for the hints guys,

 

That's what I do basically. Setup my own missions and practice. I usually have no problem beating *just one* enemy fighter, or taking out some AAA with guns/rockets...I even made a mission just to learn how to evade SAMs (it was lot of fun, btw).

 

But putting it altogether is a complete different thing. The campaigns come fully loaded, with sams, more-than-one enemy fighter, AAA, and not so much clues on how to aprroach the battle...should I follow the waypoints intially? Or is it better to figure out a different route? Just looking at the brefing screen and the mission planner drives me crazy. There are so much things out there!

 

I mean, is there any chance of surviving 2 vs 3 + SAM + AAA in real life? I can barely take out one enemy fighter at "excelent" AI, and my wingman is not much better than me, how am I suppose to handle it? :)

 

Anyway, if I decided to try the on-line thing (which I didn't yet), where should I start? Is there any "official" place to start looking at? Something like an "on-line DCS server for dummies?"

[Sabre-TLA]

DCS can be very intimidating to new users.

 

Many of the modules are considered "study" sims that require in depth knowledge and training to be able to make full use of them.

 

Our Qualification Campaigns are a set of missions to test your knowledge and techniques to operate the various aircraft or vehicles. They should be attempted after you have some knowledge and understanding of the aircraft or vehicle systems.

 

We recommend training in this order:

 

1. Read the DCS aircraft or vehicle manuals and review our Amplified Checklists provided with some of the Qualification Campaigns.

 

2. Watch the training videos and watch other videos that others have done.

 

3. Do some test flights or test missions of your own using the in game missions or Fast Mission Creator.

 

4. If practice missions are provided use them to get good at understanding what the Qualification missions will be like and what you need to do to pass.

 

Then when you feel ready, do the Qualification Campaigns to earn your Qualification.

[Ultra]

Also after a quick look in the DCS User Files section, I found about 4 or 5 SU-27 single player campaigns. One of them being a training campaign. I'd suggest you give it a try. I know that the maker of them (he's made a training campaign for most modules) is very good at making missions.

 

Edit: lol and there he is^^^ :D

Edited November 3, 2015 by Ultra

[CommDante]

I mean, is there any chance of surviving 2 vs 3 + SAM + AAA in real life? I can barely take out one enemy fighter at "excelent" AI, and my wingman is not much better than me, how am I suppose to handle it?

 

I could be wrong, but wasn't that mission about flying escort for a SEAD (Suppress Enemy Air Defences)? If so, only concentrate on the planes, and don't let them lure you into SAM areas. Your job is to keep the SEAD flight safe, not kill all planes per se.

Even if not, there should be something about those AAA/SAMs in the briefing and how to deal with them.

 

 

General SAM evasion:

Just stay out of range. :P

Usually stay high (10k+ is usually enough for AAA) and out of range of the SAMs. Higher you get, the less 'planar range' the SAMs have too.

 

Be aware of your surroundings, headtracking is key in SAM/missile evasion imo.

 

Often SAMs use Doppler RADAR, turn 90 degrees on them and they can't see you. Doppler can only see stuff that goes toward or away (newer RADAR's use multiple techniques iirc, so don't rely on it too much).

 

Bleed their energy by going left/right (from missiles perspective), since it tries to intercept it will overcompensate and loose valuable speed/energy. Don't fly straight when missiles have been fired at you. (Unless you already defeated them in the step above.)

 

Hit the deck, fly low so RADAR looses track due to ground clutter/losing Line Of Sight etc.

 

flares//chaffs accordingly for IR // RADAR ones they get close (when they don't have a trail anymore and they still seemed to get to you).

 

 

I used to fly a lot of SEAD missions with a flight buddy in Falcon 4 ... can't wait 'till some more SEAD able planes come out (F/A-18 and Tornado :pilotfly: )

Edited November 3, 2015 by CommDante

[John C Flett]

Deredo, I know where you're coming from.

 

Much as I love DCS I have had to wonder sometimes about some of the missions I've played. A few are, I feel very unfair, and at least a couple I don't believe can be beaten on full realism.

 

Also, coming from F4 BMS I also feel that briefing and planing is lacking. A lot of missions seem quite happy to fly you straight through the most defended areas and then have you attack the target from the worst approach possible.

 

Don't be afraid to use the mission planner to change the waypoints or loadout if you feel they are unsuitable. Also, if you dont have it I would strongly suggest getting Tacview. I find it invaluable for post mission analysis.

 

Lastly, I have to admit to simply editing a number of missions to make them more achievable. Some may consider it cheating but, as I said earlier, there have been a couple of missions which I just don't know if they are actually possible in their present form.

[derodo]

Sabre-TLA, I looked at the mapple flag missions not long ago, but I was hesitant...I'll probably give them a try.

 

CommDante, thanks for those insights. I'll try to put all of them to the test; the main problem is that there's a huge gap from theory to practice. I'm kind of aware of what I am supposed to do (put the missile abeam and such), but I fail misserably most of the times...

 

Evading radar guided missiles is more or less feasible (sometimes); but heat seeking missiles are a complete different thing. Most of the times I don't even know when they are launched; so I'm in the air, and all of a sudden, mi plane just explodes...how come? Of course, IR missile...crap!

 

Not to mention spotting them...that's kind of impossible. I manage to do it when I setup a mission on my own and I know exactly where the SAM launcher is, and I can see the initial smoke trail. But on a real mission...there are sooo many things to be aware of that I just get lost.

 

Anyway, thanks a lot guys for the hints again. I'll try to put them to good use. Seems It's going to take a while though :)

[OnlyforDCS]

This is a good thread.

[John C Flett]

Just as a thought, is there any thread here where we can pull together links or reference materials?

 

Not DCS specific material but articles or videos about real world training and tactics. There is a lot of good material out there that I'm sure a lot of us could learn from.

[CommDante]

Euhm, youtube? :P There are loads of videos out there.... (Don't forget Falcon 4 has loads of this info, being played for decades now (my manual was printed in 1998 ;) ).)

 

"But on a real mission...there are sooo many things to be aware of that I just get lost."

 

That's what training is for, most combat flight sims are very unforgiving in campaigns and kinda demand knowing the plane and systems ... that's why there are so many training missions. With FC3 it's a bit annoying, since those training missions were so old, the only way to still present them was by videos. Also, most of those missions you don't fly alone....you're with other flights that need to do their thing. Often SEAD strikes are in front of a strike group which both (or shared) have a fighter escort. In such a case, you don't want to fly further ahead of them, just shoot down any enemies that get close in BVR!

 

IR missiles are indeed probably the most annoying threat, maybe the new icon enlargement thingy helps, but usually that's why you have a wingman ... to spot threats coming towards you while you're busy doing the mission. If you know you're in the area of an IR SAM, keep watching the area where it is for launching cues ... and: Just try and stay out of range. (Quite easy with newer F-16's, since threat circles are on FCS/MFCD's)

 

There aren't that many IR SAMs in DCS world afaik though and when they are, the range is usually pretty small. More often you'll get shot by manpads (laser guided, but still often no to little warning) ... which kinda like AAA only go until around the 10.000 feet ceiling.

 

Best defense is knowledge in this case, check the briefing and check the SAM's in the encyclopedia air defence part and see what type and range those things have.

Hmm, just checked and doesn't tell if it's IR or RADAR or whatever....

Oh well, there are some sites/pages that have all kinds of info on SAM's..ranges, weapons...common vehicles etc.

Unlike say a Tunguska, which can operate solo ... a 'SAM site' is usually a couple of vehicles working together....RADAR dish, command center, couple of SAM launchers, maybe some ammo trucks etc.

 

When launching a HARM/ALARM orso (Anti RADAR Missiles) ...it usually only goes towards the RADAR, sometimes they can still fire visually, or use the RADAR of another SAM site nearby. (This is also the reason the Doppler defeating doesn't always work..and why it often is hard to actually hit one of those RADAR's ... they often cycle between groups).

Getting SAM sites to launch/track you for launching SAMs, to get a good lock for HARM/ALARMs (usually for wingman) is called being a Wild Weasel ... might help with searching on yt etc.

 

With SAM's: Either stay out of range, fly really high ... or hit the deck and fly at ground level/under the RADAR.

 

tldr: Just stay out of range, briefing should show threat circles of the SAMs!!

Edited November 4, 2015 by CommDante

[Lt_Maverick]

Training/learning campaigns or how to get better at DCS

 

Anyway, if I decided to try the on-line thing (which I didn't yet), where should I start? Is there any "official" place to start looking at? Something like an "on-line DCS server for dummies?"

 

 

I think the best advice given thus far is to focus on making single missions in the editor and working your way up. The USAF offers training programs for NATO and allied countries giving them an opportunity to strike live targets with A2A weapons platforms by crewing an unmanned boneyard F-4 (designated QF-4) to launch and essentially get shot down by a NATO pilot. This gives the pilot an opportunity to test how their missile reacts upon launch so they get real experience with the platform. The similar could be said to you. Put 1 SAM site in the editor. Then 2. Then multiple. Get used to avoidance. Scaffold your SAM familiarity.

 

 

I used to fly a lot of SEAD missions with a flight buddy in Falcon 4 ... can't wait 'till some more SEAD able planes come out (F/A-18 and Tornado :pilotfly: )

 

 

I thought the 16 was the only platform equipped to carry the HARM and HTS?

 

 

 

 

 

"The first time I ever saw a jet, I shot it down."- General Chuck Yeager, USAF, describing his first confrontation with a Me262.

 

 

JayRac3r/Lt_Mav YouTube Channel

[leadlag]

Have you had a go at flying the SU25T and doing the tutorial missions?

 

I came to DCS through this free module and found it invaluable for cutting my teeth in missile evasion, navigation,systems and tactics in general. It comes with some great tutorials and flying something much slower really helps honing your skilss when dealing with S.A.Ms. There is a SEAD mission.

Edited November 4, 2015 by leadlag

[Lt_Maverick]

Also after a quick look in the DCS User Files section, I found about 4 or 5 SU-27 single player campaigns. One of them being a training campaign. I'd suggest you give it a try. I know that the maker of them (he's made a training campaign for most modules) is very good at making missions.

 

 

 

Edit: lol and there he is^^^ :D

 

 

Who makes training missions?

 

 

 

 

"The first time I ever saw a jet, I shot it down."- General Chuck Yeager, USAF, describing his first confrontation with a Me262.

 

 

JayRac3r/Lt_Mav YouTube Channel

[Ultra]

Sabre-TLA, that's why I pointed up. He posted while I was still typing, and typing about him no less! :lol:

 

He's made not just missions, but training campaigns for many of the modules.

 

You can find them in DCS's User Files section on the main website.

[Lt_Maverick]

Sabre-TLA, that's why I pointed up. He posted while I was still typing, and typing about him no less! :lol:

 

He's made not just missions, but training campaigns for many of the modules.

 

You can find them in DCS's User Files section on the main website.

 

 

Good to know. Thank you.

 

 

 

 

"The first time I ever saw a jet, I shot it down."- General Chuck Yeager, USAF, describing his first confrontation with a Me262.

 

 

JayRac3r/Lt_Mav YouTube Channel