New member (ex-LOMAC), has FC 3 doubts.

[grunf]

Now I'm lost.

 

So there's 3 different "concepts" ?

 

- Flaming Cliffs 3 (which has several aircraft );

- single Standalone Su-27 module for FC3 (few systems modeled) ;

- single Standalone Su-27 module for DCS World (MiG-21Bis level).

There's only one Su-27, that can be bought separately or bundled in FC3. Same goes for other FC3 planes. Regarding systems complexity, none of them is on a Mig-21 level. They don't have clickable cockpits, everything is done by keys/hotas buttons, and is simplified. For example startup procedure in Mig-21 takes a minute or two, while in the FC3 modules you press shift-L to turn on the systems and and alt-home/ctrl-home to turn on the engines. And you're good to go. :D

 

Nevertheless, all the planes are great and fun to fly.

 

edit: the systems complexity level of FC3 planes is identical to the Su-25T that comes free with the DCS.

Edited November 10, 2015 by grunf

[Top Jockey]

Thank you guys, now I understand it better.

 

As Brisse said I was mixing up several things, so my first 2 questions on post #21 don't have reason to be.

 

Then, either flying the F-15 against the Su-27 or vice-versa, does the AI pilot give a reasonable fight in your opinion ?

[rrohde]

The MiG-29 in FC3 is using the simple flight model (SFM). If you buy FC3 only for the 29, I would wait until the 29's flight model is updated to AFM. Simple flight modeling handles like a block of styrofoam on the ground, and like a toy airplane in the air. :)

 

And yes, I believe the AI has gotten a bit better with DCS 1.5.x, so dogfights between the 27 and the 15 should be fun. :)

[grunf]

Thank you guys, now I understand it better.

 

As Brisse said I was mixing up several things, so my first 2 questions on post #21 don't have reason to be.

 

Then, either flying the F-15 against the Su-27 or vice-versa, does the AI pilot give a reasonable fight in your opinion ?

I suck at dogfight :D, so the AI is still challenging for me, but only in close range because the AI has perfect situational awareness while I often loose sight (and fight). Beyond visual range the AI is no match one on one (haven't tried in 1.5 yet).

[Top Jockey]

The MiG-29 in FC3 is using the simple flight model (SFM). If you buy FC3 only for the 29, I would wait until the 29's flight model is updated to AFM. Simple flight modeling handles like a block of styrofoam on the ground, and like a toy airplane in the air. :)

 

And yes, I believe the AI has gotten a bit better with DCS 1.5.x, so dogfights between the 27 and the 15 should be fun. :)

 

Yes I know about the actual MiG-29 SFM - that was my major "disappointment" with LOMAC years ago.

 

Didn't thought about that and it makes all sense - the AI is related to the DCS World version (not to the aircraft itself, as I thought).

 

Currently I have version 1.2.16 installed...

[Top Jockey]

I suck at dogfight :D, so the AI is still challenging for me, but only in close range because the AI has perfect situational awareness while I often loose sight (and fight). Beyond visual range the AI is no match one on one (haven't tried in 1.5 yet).

 

Dogfight pretty much depends on training, knowledge and experience, and after that, each aircraft will have its particularities.

 

FC3 seems tempting.

[pr1malr8ge]

Top, I know I'm going to sound rude so I apologize in advance..

 

Just BUY FC3 already!, it seems you're already setup to play Flight sims the money for FC3 isn't going to bust your bank. You get all the FC3 planes and when the Mig29 pfm update is released well, you'll be able to play it as soon as you download teh update.

[Top Jockey]

Top, I know I'm going to sound rude so I apologize in advance..

 

Just BUY FC3 already!, it seems you're already setup to play Flight sims the money for FC3 isn't going to bust your bank. You get all the FC3 planes and when the Mig29 pfm update is released well, you'll be able to play it as soon as you download teh update.

 

Hahaha - it sounds that easy!

 

I'm not counting on the MiG-29 PFM being developed and get available soon, to buy FC3.

(Although it would be outstanding to have it already.)

 

But I tell you, some details that appeal to me on FC3 (I've been reading the manual) :

 

AIM-9 Sidewinder seeker cage / uncage feature modeled in the F-15...

 

Not the "instantaneous auto-lock only" feature for heat-seeker missiles, that one see at some FSX combat aircraft modules.

Though it's supposed to be a "simulator", in the end it sends that "arcade" feeling.

 

Discussed below:

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=151515

 

(I know, the MiG-21Bis also has very simple heat-seeker employment sights / procedures, but I believe what's modeled is the real thing.)

Edited November 11, 2015 by Top Jockey

[Santi871]

Hahaha - it sounds that easy!

 

I'm not counting on the MiG-29 PFM being developed and get available soon, to buy FC3.

(Although it would be outstanding to have it already.)

 

But I tell you, some details that appeal to me on FC3 (I've been reading the manual) :

 

AIM-9 Sidewinder seeker cage / uncage feature modeled in the F-15...

 

Not the "instantaneous auto-lock only" feature for heat-seeker missiles, that one see at some FSX combat aircraft modules.

Though it's supposed to be a "simulator", in the end it sends that "arcade" feeling.

 

Discussed below:

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=151515

 

(I know, the MiG-21Bis also has very simple heat-seeker employment sights / procedures, but I believe what's modeled is the real thing.)

 

FC3 planes aren't fully modelled so it's not really fair to call them a sim (strictly speaking).

 

Either way, the auto-lock feature is modelled, the vertical scan mode or boresight radar modes will autolock and the AIM9's seeker will be slaved to it. Or you can use the AIM9's seeker standalone without aid from the radar.

[Top Jockey]

FC3 planes aren't fully modelled so it's not really fair to call them a sim (strictly speaking).

 

Either way, the auto-lock feature is modelled, the vertical scan mode or boresight radar modes will autolock and the AIM9's seeker will be slaved to it. Or you can use the AIM9's seeker standalone without aid from the radar.

 

Hello, I didn't explain myself very well.

 

What you are mentioning is an: "automatic AIM-9 seeker lock by the radar" mode, which is real.

 

I'm mentioning: auto-lock feature "instant point & shoot" like if one was playing Play Station's Ace Combat or so.

Which has been standardized by many software developers in many so called "sims".

 

" Select heat-seekers; point your aircraft to target; shoot "

In which there's no Radar mode selection; no Cage / Uncage features - it's extremely simplistic, which isn't accurate.

 

For instance: when you're flying an F-14A, regarding the AIM-9, you have CAGED and SEAM modes - if this is not modeled you'll get an "arcadish" feeling.

Edited November 11, 2015 by Top Jockey

[Top Jockey]

Well, with every answer I'm reading here, this is really asking to get some money spent again... at 35 I should know better. :lol:

 

...

 

Downloading...

[Brisse]

Downloading...

 

Have fun! :)

[Santi871]

Hello, I didn't explain myself very well.

 

What you are mentioning is an: "automatic AIM-9 seeker lock by the radar" mode, which is real.

 

I'm mentioning: auto-lock feature "instant point & shoot" like if one was playing Play Station's Ace Combat or so.

Which has been standardized by many software developers in many so called "sims".

 

" Select heat-seekers; point your aircraft to target; shoot "

In which there's no Radar mode selection; no Cage / Uncage features - it's extremely simplistic, which isn't accurate.

 

For instance: when you're flying an F-14A, regarding the AIM-9, you have CAGED and SEAM modes - if this is not modeled you'll get an "arcadish" feeling.

 

Oh I get it now, yeah, it's not unrealistic as far as I'm aware.

[Top Jockey]

Oh I get it now, yeah, it's not unrealistic as far as I'm aware.

 

Hello Santi871,

 

So you're saying, it's realisitic.

 

(I'm talking about non DCS or FC3 sims.)

[Brisse]

Hello Santi871,

 

So you're saying, it's realisitic.

 

(I'm talking about non DCS or FC3 sims.)

 

Are you talking about the autolock cheats that you find under the "simplifications" section of the keybinds? Those are only enabled if you enable the corresponding cheat under gameplay options. Otherwise you will have realistic avionics.

[Santi871]

Hello Santi871,

 

So you're saying, it's realisitic.

 

(I'm talking about non DCS or FC3 sims.)

 

Nope. I'm saying the vertical scan and uncaged boresight modes in FC3 are realistic.

[Top Jockey]

Are you talking about the autolock cheats that you find under the "simplifications" section of the keybinds? Those are only enabled if you enable the corresponding cheat under gameplay options. Otherwise you will have realistic avionics.

 

Didn't even know those cheats exist - wasn't talking about DCS or FC3.

 

I use to play every aircraft / combat sims with realistic avionics... ( that's why I'm yet trying to understand the several Radar range tweak modes, on both the Su-27 and the F-15. ) :lol:

 

But again - that's how I like it: several details & procedures to acquire and lock your weapons on the enemy modeled.

 

I'm talking about another recent sim featuring the Tomcat (without any intention to bash it in anyway, as I also appreciate it a lot and is the best so far, however that "simplistic" mode for the AIM-9 kind of brings the standards down a bit. )

 

Nope. I'm saying the vertical scan and uncaged boresight modes in FC3 are realistic.

 

Ok now I understand.

Since yesterday (bought FC3) have not tried those modes yet.

But if they are realistic, for me that's the goal.

[Sryan]

well soon you will have to look no further for a good tomcat simulation :)

 

http://www.leatherneck-sim.com/f14/

 

it's the same team that made the MiG21. they're also making a map called strait of hormuz for it. As you can see that terrain should lend itself extremely well for carrier based operations. it'll be PFM/ASM level ( pro flight model/advanced systems model, so like the mig21). And it will be possible to fly together with a friend in the same plane.

 

As for sidewinder dynamics. try shooting one at the sun :D and then shoot down that sidewinder with another one! ( don't know if the FC3 level aircraft are capable of this but it was possible in the A10C :P )

[Top Jockey]

well soon you will have to look no further for a good tomcat simulation :)

 

http://www.leatherneck-sim.com/f14/

 

it's the same team that made the MiG21. they're also making a map called strait of hormuz for it. As you can see that terrain should lend itself extremely well for carrier based operations. it'll be PFM/ASM level ( pro flight model/advanced systems model, so like the mig21). And it will be possible to fly together with a friend in the same plane.

 

As for sidewinder dynamics. try shooting one at the sun :D and then shoot down that sidewinder with another one! ( don't know if the FC3 level aircraft are capable of this but it was possible in the A10C :P )

 

Hello Sryan,

 

Hahha! I hope so - looking forward to it!

I've been talking about it with other members already (though more about the weapons HUD symbols and so) :

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=151515

 

I will try that with the A-10...

[Top Jockey]

well soon you will have to look no further for a good tomcat simulation :)

 

http://www.leatherneck-sim.com/f14/

 

it's the same team that made the MiG21. they're also making a map called strait of hormuz for it. As you can see that terrain should lend itself extremely well for carrier based operations. it'll be PFM/ASM level ( pro flight model/advanced systems model, so like the mig21). And it will be possible to fly together with a friend in the same plane.

 

As for sidewinder dynamics. try shooting one at the sun :D and then shoot down that sidewinder with another one! ( don't know if the FC3 level aircraft are capable of this but it was possible in the A10C :P )

 

Tried that in the F-15. Interesting!

 

Aimed the first AIM-9 to the sun.

It didn't have the heat source audio growl, neither the seeker locked, but after launch it followed the sun direction.

 

Aimed the second AIM-9 to the first AIM-9.

It did have the audio growl and the seeker quickly locked itself on the first AIM-9.

However, little after launch it also started to follow the sun.

 

Modeled fine details like this, are what makes me appreciate Flaming Cliffs 3 a lot.