Chaff and R27(E)R

[Drona]

Oh no, not the Ethiopian Eritrean War statistics again :doh:

[Ragnarok]

does anyone know why there were many failures and R-27R?

 

my source:

 

- on the side of Ethiopia were some Russian pilots, who are more trained Ethiopian pilots but than were fighting. In the beginning of the war, Ethiopian pilots behaved in that the fired rockets from a large distance, and with the first rapprochement interrupted lock. My source said that the Russian instructor insisted on that it must be approached much closer and not to leave the offensive to end. On the same day was shot down mig with missile R-27R. The other victory with R-73 was later.

 

Sounds simple, but there it was. Between brave pilots who are may there come closer, she was a woman pilot :)

 

I'm ready to tell my source, but only PM. I have proof :)

Edited January 8, 2016 by Ragnarok

[Angel101]

So let me get this straight in an actual war the r27 went 0/24 which is a 0%pk rating.

 

Let me just help the r27 out a little bit and say that 50% of those were fired in abnormal launch parameters. so we have a 0/12 ratio or still a 0%pk value. I'll even go as far as saying that half of those shots missed was due to pilot error in breaking lock too soon and the missile going ballistic. We have a 0/6 0%pk ratio. No half of those missiles were evaded because of terrain masking we are now to 0/3 or 0%pk ratios. So that leaves us with 3 missiles fired in correct parameters and they were evaded because of Chaff.

 

Well Still seams about the same as what we have in DCS. :P

 

Just to remark, they got one kill with R27 so this gives a better pk... but you know take it like a grain of salt... we don´t know how really happened those engagements :music_whistling:

[Angel101]

Oh no, not the Ethiopian Eritrean War statistics again :doh:

 

oh sorry! I didn´t know that info maybe as generated other longs threads.

[otto]

Really? You want to nitpick on probabilities? :)

Well apparently you don't know where to put the decimal point then!

 

Did you not read what was written? When a missile is launched in good parameters it is not possible to evade it with maneuvers.

 

You missed the point.

 

So if a missile is fired and the target plane's pilot puts a mountain peak between him and the missile it's still going to hit right ? Because it's 100%.

 

You think i made a mistake about the decimal or i just didn't care enough?

[GGTharos]

You cared enough to post.

 

Mountains, countermeasures and all that jazz isn't taken into account when computing/otherwise determining the missile's maneuvering capability. That's because the main interest is the miss distances achieved via maneuver, not your theorycrafting.

[otto]

You cared enough to post.

 

That's because the main interest is the miss distances achieved via maneuver, not your theorycrafting.

 

So only in perfect "Laboratory" conditions the missile will have 100% chance to hit. Now i understand .

[GGTharos]

No, not even close. All DLZs are based on maneuver.

 

I see you're still missing the point, I don't know if deliberately or not: Within certain parameters it is impossible to defeat the missile with maneuver alone. You cannot generate enough miss distance to avoid proximity fuzing for a given set of launch parameters and target g and maneuvers.

 

CMs can help increase miss distance, but there's no guarantee that your target will use them (either because they don't have them, they don't have time to use them, or your launch may be unobserved ... you can add reasons as you please). So no, it's not 'perfect laboratory conditions'.

 

So only in perfect "Laboratory" conditions the missile will have 100% chance to hit. Now i understand .

[ShuRugal]

So if a missile is fired and the target plane's pilot puts a mountain peak between him and the missile it's still going to hit right ? Because it's 100%.

 

You think i made a mistake about the decimal or i just didn't care enough?

 

If there is a mountain peak close enough for the target to get behind it, the missile was not fired in good parameters.

[Chrinik]

Well, not only is the ER easier to spoof then a toddler and apparently has a shorter range (not clear on that tho), I also think that pilots easily get tricked by eagles because of INS launch...

I tend to break when I see that an Eagle is hot on me, within weapons parameters, because I KNOW he has launched already.

I only stay engaged until I can force out an active missle to make him go defensive, and then break for the deck immediately and spam chaff. A couple seconds later I get the RWR warning of the Amraam he launched at me, but typically I am already in a much better position to evade it. Sometimes I broke entirely out of the missles seeker, so that it turns it´s head on and sees empty sky, getting confused.

But since I can only judge that from my cockpit, not from his, I don´t even know if the Amraam can follow a TWS target very well. I just know that I get most of my kills with ETs/R-77s and the occasional R-73, while dodging early to avoid invisible missiles.