Jump to content

Training Aircraft


Recommended Posts

Hi all, I just had a thought that will probley polarise the replys from this but i was thinking that since this sim seems to be headed towards pure realism via avionics and flight model fidelity, that it may be a viable option to include traning aircraft from both the Soviets and the US.

 

Iam not an expert of either nations training methods (thats why iam posting) but I was thinking something along the lines of an L-39 primary flight trainer for the soviet block and T-6 for the US.

 

The Training would be along the lines of proper flying technique in the areas of:

 

Basic Aircraft Performance (handeling)

 

Takeoff and landing

 

Navigation (simmilar to Ironhands excelent tutorials)

 

Flight Characteristics (Stalls, Spins, Corner velocity etc..)

 

Formation flight

 

Time on target

 

Night flying

 

 

 

With this rough (very rough) outline of basic flight training i think that this would possibley increase the appeal to a wider audience and make all of us more provficent sim-aviators

 

I do conseed that this could all be done on the current SU-25 with the AFM but i think it would be a excelent addition to this world leading sim.

 

(Sorry FO guys but hopefully it will remove that novelty from your sim... once again realy sorry:( )

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What a great idea. It would certainly be good for online squads where new members must 'get thier wings' on a training type before moving to an 'active squadron' and then learning war fighting after the flying. Adds realism, challenge and would raise skill levels a great deal.

=IronAngels=

Http://www.ironangelslockonsquad.com

Iron Angels Lockon Squad

Iron Angels: The Proud, The Few, The Elite

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I know its off topic but, Fighterops is exactly like that. you will have to earn your wings before you even step inside a fighter..

 

www.fighterops.com

 

But in lockon It would be a good learning tool... probably going to need the robinson R-22 to learn to fly the complicated KA-50... I have seen the vid of the bloke trying to take it off lol :joystick: :pilotfly:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There's already a trainer in LOFC - nearly anyway.

Su-25UT(?) - the 2 seater trainer with the tailhook designed for training carrier pilots. It could be the basis of a flight school (campaign?) working through the basics, getting more advanced - & maybe finishing with carrier landings.

I guess the trainee sits in the front & so wouldn't be able to see the trainer from their seat anyway - & this would work well with the current training method in LO where there are demo tracks that control the plane & show/tell you how to perform the task then allow you to take over & try yourself.

It's perfectly credible that the voice you hear & the inputs controling the plane are coming from the instructor - who's in the back where you can't see him.

Cheers.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There's already a trainer in LOFC - nearly anyway.

Su-25UT(?) - the 2 seater trainer with the tailhook designed for training carrier pilots. It could be the basis of a flight school (campaign?) working through the basics, getting more advanced - & maybe finishing with carrier landings.

I guess the trainee sits in the front & so wouldn't be able to see the trainer from their seat anyway - & this would work well with the current training method in LO where there are demo tracks that control the plane & show/tell you how to perform the task then allow you to take over & try yourself.

It's perfectly credible that the voice you hear & the inputs controling the plane are coming from the instructor - who's in the back where you can't see him.

 

 

 

Errr, sortof.

 

 

The Su25UTG is only there if you install either my Su25UTG mod, or the Naval Supermod - otherwise you've got the Su25T and Su25TM.

 

The Su25T and Su25TM are both based on the Su25UB airframe . . . . . . that is to say, the two-seater with the rear cockpit full of fuel and avionics. A bit of file editing will put something approximating rear cockpit windows in and move the view to the rear seat.

 

 

In v1.02 you could actually have dual controls over a network - I did some more file editing and managed to create a mod that swapped the Su27 for a dual-control Su27UB for flight/combat training.

 

However, the code was then junked for Flaming Cliffs, so while it's all technically possible it'd require doing from scratch.

 

 

Screenies:

 

ScreenShot_711.jpg

 

ScreenShot_377.jpg

 

ScreenShot_375.jpg

 

ScreenShot_394.jpg

 

ScreenShot_415.jpg

 

ScreenShot_408.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi BGP - yep I knew that it became available with one of your mods, what I meant by 'There's already a trainer in LOFC - nearly anyway' was that the flight model, basic wiremesh model for the plane & cockpit, avionics etc. are all pretty much there - all the building blocks you used.

I figured (& no disrespect meant) if a community member could mod up a decent Su25UTG from those elements already in LO, then surely E.D. could do a full version with a lot less effort than trying to start building an L-39 or T-6.

The inline seating means you don't realy get to see the other pilot, but gives some justification for the voice over & the plane flying itself during demos (I think the old LAN code would be good, but even just using the present track system this would be more realistic.)

So - does the trainee actually sit in the rear ? I took a couple of glider training flights & there I sat in the front so I assumed this would be the same.

If they sit in the front then the cockpit model would hardly need changing at all...

 

Is the instrumentation in the Su-25UTG nearer that of the Su-25 or the Su-25T? I believe it has no weapons systems, & I guess it has the attitude indicators for the carrier approach, but does it have a full hud & autopilot etc?

Cheers.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi BGP - yep I knew that it became available with one of your mods, what I meant by 'There's already a trainer in LOFC - nearly anyway' was that the flight model, basic wiremesh model for the plane & cockpit, avionics etc. are all pretty much there - all the building blocks you used.

I figured (& no disrespect meant) if a community member could mod up a decent Su25UTG from those elements already in LO, then surely E.D. could do a full version with a lot less effort than trying to start building an L-39 or T-6.

The inline seating means you don't realy get to see the other pilot, but gives some justification for the voice over & the plane flying itself during demos (I think the old LAN code would be good, but even just using the present track system this would be more realistic.)

 

. . . . Broadly speaking I guess that's all accurate, yes, but it's still a significant amount of work . . . . .

 

Less work than building an aircraft from scratch doesn't mean that it is easy, and neither does it mean that it is a priority . . . .

 

 

Aircraft variants:

 

The Su25UB is a two-seat, combat capable Su25.

 

The Su25UT (upon which the Su25UTG is based) has had the armour and armament removed, although it retains the ability to carry fuel tanks on the pylons.

 

Sukhoi attempted to get some sales of the Su25UT by renaming it the Su28 and marketing it as an L39 rival - however, they never managed to sell any and it never really made it as a trainer.

 

 

So - does the trainee actually sit in the rear ? I took a couple of glider training flights & there I sat in the front so I assumed this would be the same.

If they sit in the front then the cockpit model would hardly need changing at all...

 

Is the instrumentation in the Su-25UTG nearer that of the Su-25 or the Su-25T? I believe it has no weapons systems, & I guess it has the attitude indicators for the carrier approach, but does it have a full hud & autopilot etc?

 

Standard procedure in any training aircraft is for the student to sit in the front seat - where they'd sit normally, it's just easier for them to adapt from there.

 

The rear seat position was provided for the instructor pilot, back when the dual control code was present. Added a bit more immersion for whoever was instructing at the time.

 

Somewhere I've got cockpit pics for the Su25UTG, so I'd need to refer to them - IIRC it's at Su25 level rather than Su25T level, so HUD and avionics would be a no . . . . .

 

Somewhat basic trainer, it's just there for acclimatisation to landing an aeroplane on a boat ;)

 

 

 

(awaits any corrections from JJ_Alfa)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

'Less work than building an aircraft from scratch doesn't mean that it is easy, and neither does it mean that it is a priority'

 

but if they ever make it a priority, it would be less work :-)

 

It's not so high on my list either, but not a bad idea in itself.

I think a basic trainer what they were after & the Su-25 is, as you say, pretty basic - but it does already come with AFM ...The moccona of FM's - gives more hmmmmm...

I'm surprised they didn't give the UTG a HUD & ILS system to help new 'naval aviators' learn to line up using similar tools to those they will use when they're trained...

Cheers.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest IguanaKing

That's not exactly a UPT-type trainer though, like the types pho3nix was requesting. ;) FC already does an excellent job giving us transition training into the A-10. The first time you strap into one IRL, its all you. :D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah I know what you mean - I realise it's not exactly what pho3nix had in mind, but he did say he thought that the Su-25 might do at a push & I thought if we're going to use that we may as well get an Su-25 variant that actually is a trainer.

It would still let you learn the things on his list:

 

"Basic Aircraft Performance (handeling)

Takeoff and landing

Navigation (simmilar to Ironhands excelent tutorials)

Flight Characteristics (Stalls, Spins, Corner velocity etc..)

Formation flight

Time on target

Night flying"

 

& do so with the AFM.

I think that the idea of a 'flight school' is quite good - & bring LO in line with FO at some level, but the less work for E.D. to do it the better & an Su-25 variant has to be the minimum short of not doing it...

 

Do I remember you saying you were about to have a session in an actual millitary simulator or was that someone else? If so - how was it?

Cheers.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest IguanaKing

I think that was Rugg who had that coming up. IIRC, he said it was an ACES simulator...which he might not like very much. :music_whistling:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well like i said without going to the effort of making new aircraft, would people be interested in making a series of training tracks with the su-25 which covers the before mentioned proper fliying techinques.

 

Preferably someone that has been there, done that.

 

I think that itself would be a critical element to this simulator and increase the standard of flying and enjoyment accros the entire spectrum of virtual pilots.

 

For things like navigation, it has already been done via Ironhand's steam gauge navigation track.

 

And even posibley a nice training skin for the su-25 :)

 

I would do it my self but i haven started my pilot traning yet and would not want to put a speculative view of militaty flying techniques as the basis for future virtual pilots as that may introduce bad habits.

 

Just my two cents anyway

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...