New D-9 FM since 2.0?

[Hummingbird]

Found a solution to the 30 sec clip length. I'll be recording with GeForce Shadow today, then I can record as long as I'd like. Just need to figure out how much space the video file will take up pr. min.

 

Also will do some sustained turn time testing with clear visual references in 1.5 and 2.0 to see if it matches up with Yo Yo's intended performance as well as to see if there's a difference between 1.5 and 2.0.

[Crumpp]

It feels to me that something is different in 2.0 with the Dora. I was beginning to find the Dora was a really effective weapon in 1.5 and was taking on 3-4 mustangs with sucess. Now in 2.0 im struggling 1 on 1 against the Mustang.

 

In the first release of 1.5, the two aircraft were perfectly balanced but with different characteristics. Not caricatures with single qualities like previous games which is not very immersive. If I kept the aircraft at its working speeds, it performed as it should.

 

I could do the same thing in the Mustang as I could the Dora. It came down too knowing the aircraft, flying its strengths and your skill as the deciding factor.

 

Whatever "version" of that FM, they need to bring it back!

[Yo-Yo]

Two quick clips of me doing a sustained turn in 2.0 flying the Dora.

 

Btw for some reason I couldn't get the clips to last more than 30 sec in FRAPS :huh:

 

Anyway as you can see in the first clip I am maintaining around 380 km/h in a full power sustained turn, in the next I dip a little lower in speed.

 

 

And what is the point of this test? What was the time of the full circle? What was the temperature and ABSOLUTE height?

[Crumpp]

Yo-Yo

And what is the point of this test? What was the time of the full circle? What was the temperature and ABSOLUTE height?

 

I think it is just testing to see that the video system works in the game.

[Anatoli-Kagari9]

Poor Yo-Yo,

 

he is so accustomed to us always complaining about the flight dynamics, arguing about this or that performance figures, etc..., that he must have misunderstood Hummingbird's intentions :-)

[NineLine]

Poor Yo-Yo,

 

he is so accustomed to us always complaining about the flight dynamics, arguing about this or that performance figures, etc..., that he must have misunderstood Hummingbird's intentions :-)

 

He wasnt the only one...

[Crumpp]

I do not think this is Yo-Yo's FM work. His calculations agree with that.

 

I think his work sometimes just gets corrupted with all the versions and file swapping that happens in development of a complex piece of software such as DCS World.

[Bucic]

In cockpit:

[LCtrl + ENTER] - controls indicator

[LCtrl + Y] - infobar, cycle modes

[Hummingbird]

Hi Yo Yo,

 

Those videos were merely to show the type of sustained turns I was performing against Crumpp. They weren't meant to prove anything by themselves :)

 

Location where I did those turns you can see on the mission file I attached earlier. Time to complete a full 360 turn was 26+ seconds at that location.

[Hummingbird]

In cockpit:

[LCtrl + ENTER] - controls indicator

[LCtrl + Y] - infobar, cycle modes

 

Thanks that will be useful :)

[Talisman_VR]

It feels to me that something is different in 2.0 with the Dora. I was beginning to find the Dora was a really effective weapon in 1.5 and was taking on 3-4 mustangs with sucess. Now in 2.0 im struggling 1 on 1 against the Mustang.

 

Hi Westr,

 

Just thinking, if you could regularly take on 4 Mustangs with success in a single Dora, would that perhaps suggest that the Dora simulation was over-performing or the Mustang was under-performing in some way?

I suppose it depends on how we might measure success; like shoot all the enemy down, just survive to land or bail out after shooting a couple down, or something else.

 

Happy landings,

 

Talisman

[313_Nevo]

what is the base for 2.0? is it 1.5? or 1.2.16? or 1.2.<16? ..just asking (I dont mean terrain vise ;) )

[Anatoli-Kagari9]

In cockpit:

[LCtrl + ENTER] - controls indicator

[LCtrl + Y] - infobar, cycle modes

 

Precious shortcut Bucic - I wasn't aware of the LCtrl-Y !!! Will be usefull, not having to switch to external view ( F2 ) as I was always doing....

[Anatoli-Kagari9]

BTW: regarding turn rates.... I remember ( wrong forum I know ) that once I tried to complete a 4' rate turn ( the standard by default in the UH-1H, by aligning with the turn coordinator 4' marks, and times my full around the clock turns, which all lasted nothing even comparable to 4' ( all lasted a LOT less ) :-/

[Hummingbird]

Tests completed, loading up the recordings for editing and then when I've cleaned them up I will upload them to youtube. Stay tuned! :)

[Crumpp]

I got to do the same with the P-51 video. Initial examination shows the relative low speed turning ability is correct. If the Dora gets slow, the P-51 will win.

 

At high speed though, the P-51 seems to sustaining a rate of turn and load factor it could not. At 200 knots it is sustaining over 3 G with a rate of turn that is superior to the Dora.

Edited December 9, 2015 by Crumpp

[Crumpp]

In cockpit:

[LCtrl + ENTER] - controls indicator

[LCtrl + Y] - infobar, cycle modes

 

Thanks!!

[Hummingbird]

I got to do the same with the P-51 video. Initial examination shows the relative low speed turning ability is correct. If the Dora gets slow, the P-51 will win.

 

At high speed though, the P-51 seems to sustaining a rate of turn and load factor it could not. At 200 knots it is sustaining over 3 G with a rate of turn that is superior to the Dora.

 

The first video I've completed editing is the one where I try my best to outturn you, i.e. I allow the speed to drop to 365 km/h for periods of time but generally stay at 380 km/h.

 

Yo Yo's charts show an advantage for the Dora at around 365 km/h, hence why I was aiming to stay between 365 and 380 km/h.

 

Later I tried staying at 405-415 km/h, but you had an even easier time turning with me then.

[Hummingbird]

That having been said we really need voice comms for this, because that will seriously cut down on the preparation time for each test. We can then also specify what speeds we are aiming at on the fly. No need to stop in between tests then :)

[Hummingbird]

First video is up, however sadly there was no sound captured, so I put in some music to hopefully make it a little less boring to watch.

 

[NineLine]

First video is up, however sadly there was no sound captured, so I put in some music to hopefully make it a little less boring to watch.

 

[YOUTUBE vid /YOUTUBE]

 

So the test shows they are fairly even in turn performance, isnt that the way it is supposed to be. At least at lower altitudes?

 

You cannot get a full picture of turn performance just looking at one parameters.

 

To answer the question of "Does the FW-190D9 outturn the P-51D?" the answer is "it depends on the specific conditions."

 

Here is the sustained load factor comparison:

 

image

 

You can see that the lift limited performance of the P-51D does occur at a lower velocity due to the stall speed.

 

However, it terms of sustainable load factor, the FW-190D9 simply has more power available and can sustain a higher load factor.

 

That is why the FW-190D9 also has more acceleration at low altitude:

 

image

 

This translates into a Rate of Turn advantage as long as the FW-190D9 does not try to match the Mustangs performance at the Mustangs lower velocity, the FW-190D9 will move its nose thru 360 degrees faster than the Mustang.

 

image

 

A higher Rate of Turn allows the Dora to advance in the turning circle faster than the Mustang meaning the Mustang pilot will end up with the Dora on his tail in a steady state turn.

 

BUT if the Dora pilot tries to match the Mustang's speeds....it will be the Dora pilot who cannot match Rate of Turn and he will end up with the Mustang on his tail.

 

The Mustang commands a radius of turn advantage when traveling at a lower velocity. The Mustang almost always turns in a smaller radius especially if he is at his best ROT velocity.

 

That means if the Dora pilot picks a pure or lead pursuit in the turn, the Mustang will out-turn the Dora.

 

The Dora should always pick a lag pursuit. That means do not look at the Mustang or ahead of the mustang, instead focus on a point behind the mustang in a sustained turn fight.

 

Bottom line is these two designs are very evenly matched in terms of level sustained turn performance. It comes down simply to the skill of the pilot.

 

At altitude, the Mustang becomes superior where it has more power available. The advantage of the Dora gets smaller as we go higher in altitude until the Mustang takes the lead.

 

With its agility advantage and acceleration, the Dora has a dog-fighting edge over the P-51 at low altitude.

 

That being said, neither of these aircraft "outclass" the other. They are equals with very little to choose between them in terms of practical performance.

[Yo-Yo]

This is the graph I made as test results for all three planes were gathered some months ago. According to this graph, nothing strange or wrong in this video... :)

[Hummingbird]

So the test shows they are fairly even in turn performance, isnt that the way it is supposed to be. At least at lower altitudes?

 

Well no it shows him easily staying with me, even at my best turn speed. According to Crumpp he could keep a nice steady gun solution on me throughout my turns and turn past me if he wanted to.

 

This is not supposed to be the case according to Yo Yo's charts.

[Hummingbird]

This is the graph I made as test results for all three planes were gathered some months ago. According to this graph, nothing strange or wrong in this video... :)

 

The video shows him easily staying with me at speeds that your chart says he shouldn't :)

 

According to Crumpp he was able to keep a nice steady gun solution on me, and turn inside me if he wished.

[NineLine]

Seems like maybe you werent going fast enough to gain the advantage, no?