MiG-29 Flaps don't go down with airbrake out

[tovivan]

As title says. Flaps won't deploy as long as the airbrake is extended, kinda reverse situation of airbrakes and gear. Tried until the point where I had to pull in AB and extend gear, 330kmh.

[lokodehortaleza]

I seem to recall that's how the real aircraft works.

[hesterj]

I have this same behavior, but always thought it was normal. Perhaps this is to discourage using airbrake while landing, as airbrake is normally used to descend while at high altitiude to lower altitude, not on approach to strip. Extending airbreak with flaps could cause the plane to lose altitude unintentionally, causing an unexpected thlump into the ground. In the manual it talks about proper use of flaps, etc. for landing but I think that the idea is that airbrake is not appropriate for landing for whatever reason, so is disabled.

[TheSkipjack95]

With the AoA on landing it's possible an open airbrake would collide with the runway too.

[tovivan]

It's either a bug or a "feature" because it WAS possible before. I haven't flown the 29 for any amount of time since before the last 2 or 3 updates, back then it was still possible iirc.

 

Also, if your AoA is so high that you would drag with that short AB on the ground, then it doesn't matter, cause you already dragged down your engine nozzles to the bone. ;-)

[Ironhand]

Depends on the model of the MiG-29. Some use the "Swallow" airbrake which has a part that extends above the fuselage and a part that extends below. Those are designed to close, when the landing gear are extended and can't be lowered until the gear are raised. As already mentioned, the lower portion can be damaged in a landing. That's why it can't be used with the gear down.

 

Other models have a redesigned "Beaver" airbrake that only extends above the fuselage and has more surface area. That version can be used with the landing gear extended.

 

It's been so long since I've looked at the sim's MiG-29s that I'm not even sure which models are represented. At one time, the model was one using the "Swallow" airbrake. Not sure if that's changed at all.

[tovivan]

Depends on the model of the MiG-29. Some use the "Swallow" airbrake which has a part that extends above the fuselage and a part that extends below.... snipped

 

Well, the S version uses the Swallow IIRC. I fully understand the reasoning for the gear-block, but wouldn't the airbrake and flaps opened at the same time provide maximum slowing-down efficiency?

[Alfa]

Don't know about speedbrake operation being blocked by trailing edge flap extension, but there are a number of restrictions in regards to use of the speedbrake:

 

- cannot be deployed with the gear extended.

 

- cannot be deployed at speeds above 540 knots(IAS) - in this case extended speedbrake will retract via airflow pressure.

 

- will automatically retract if hydraulic pressure drops below a certain level(probably to preserve pressure for other more critical control surfaces).

[Alfa]

 

Other models have a redesigned "Beaver" airbrake that only extends above the fuselage and has more surface area. That version can be used with the landing gear extended.

 

The models in question are the MiG-29M and MiG-29K. The "beaver" bit actually refers to the fuselage spine ending in "beaver tail" shape :) - but its correct that they have a larger single piece speedbrake(similar to that of the Su-27) that can be deployed with the gear down.

 

It's been so long since I've looked at the sim's MiG-29s that I'm not even sure which models are represented. At one time, the model was one using the "Swallow" airbrake. Not sure if that's changed at all.

 

It hasn't - the three "baseline" MiG-29 variants represented in the sim all have the two-piece "swallow tail" type.

[Ironhand]

To Tovivan,

 

I just jumped into both the -29S and -29A cockpits and was able to deploy both flaps and the airbrake together. I could keep both extended or retract and re-extend either at will. Not sure where your difficulty lies.

[tovivan]

To Tovivan,

 

I just jumped into both the -29S and -29A cockpits and was able to deploy both flaps and the airbrake together. I could keep both extended or retract and re-extend either at will. Not sure where your difficulty lies.

 

Me neither because neither me nor my friend could drop flaps with airbrake extended in the space of 2 minutes.

 

Is it possible that the mission got messed up during transition from 1.2 to 1.5 and affected the behaviour of planes?

 

I have namely noticed strange behaviour by ME in 1.5 like messing up missions, not including scripts into mission file (like MIST) and so on. I'm also starting to suspect a mission got messed up and that's why I lost 6 dof in the 29.

 

Gonna try it again later tonight.

 

PS: at which speed did you first try to drop the flaps?

[Ironhand]

Me neither because neither me nor my friend could drop flaps with airbrake extended in the space of 2 minutes.

 

Is it possible that the mission got messed up during transition from 1.2 to 1.5 and affected the behaviour of planes?

 

I have namely noticed strange behaviour by ME in 1.5 like messing up missions, not including scripts into mission file (like MIST) and so on. I'm also starting to suspect a mission got messed up and that's why I lost 6 dof in the 29.

 

Gonna try it again later tonight.

 

PS: at which speed did you first try to drop the flaps?

I built a quick mission in the 1.5 Editor with an airstart at 400 km/hr. Had no issues whatsoever at that airspeed. I didn't experiment to see what the top speed was.

 

So it might be your mission not porting over properly.

[tovivan]

 

So it might be your mission not porting over properly.

 

Yup, seems that way.

 

Thanks for your help!