Flexing and vibrating wings

[Ala12Rv-watermanpc]

Hi guys!...another effect that would greatly improve game inmersion and realism would be flexing and vbrating wings, even if there is not a real computation behind it I think that a simple animation would do the job, so please ED, could you make that happen??:thumbup:

[Buzzles]

Wing flex is already in game.

 

Su-27 definitely does it, F86 recently started doing it, and a few others do as well now.

[Ala12Rv-watermanpc]

Wing flex is already in game.

 

Su-27 definitely does it, F86 recently started doing it, and a few others do as well now.

 

Really??:huh:...I have never notice it mate...I will have to check it out :joystick:...anyway, the thing is to get all this stuff in all planes would be great, at least in the flyable ones...btw, any good video showing the effect in su 27?:music_whistling:

 

Thanks mate!

[archer86]

Really??:huh:...I have never notice it mate...I will have to check it out :joystick:...anyway, the thing is to get all this stuff in all planes would be great, at least in the flyable ones...btw, any good video showing the effect in su 27?:music_whistling:

 

Thanks mate!

 

do not expect a certain effect like on real , I hope they'll improve it

it is hard to notice

[Buzzles]

Really??:huh:...I have never notice it mate...I will have to check it out :joystick:...anyway, the thing is to get all this stuff in all planes would be great, at least in the flyable ones...btw, any good video showing the effect in su 27?:music_whistling:

 

Thanks mate!

 

[ame]

[/ame]

[archer86]

Thanks to both guys for the info...I have watched the videos but...well, I think its not as good as it could be, I mean, they flex but they do it very little and they dont VIBRATE as they do in real life...I would love to get something like that:

 

 

wow!

now that is the certain effect and very noticable.

Edited January 7, 2016 by archer86

[Ala12Rv-watermanpc]

Thanks to both guys for the info...I have watched the videos but...well, I think its not as good as it could be, I mean, they flex but they do it very little and they dont VIBRATE as they do in real life...I would love to get something like that:

 

 

wow!

now that is the certain effect and very noticable.

 

Yes!! it is...I think it would be nice to implement this kind of stuff in existing planes and of course in new/future releases...when you look back in the cockpit and make a hard turn or release a misil or bomb and see how your wing reacts to that...OMG!!!!!!!!:shocking::bounce: it would be AMAZING!!...and even greater with vapour over wing btw ahah

[mvsgas]

Thanks to both guys for the info...I have watched the videos but...well, I think its not as good as it could be, I mean, they flex but they do it very little and they dont VIBRATE as they do in real life...I would love to get something like that:

 

How much are they suppose to flex or buffet?

[mvsgas]

 

 

and

 

Aircraft Stalling and Buffeting

[NeilWillis]

Showing a model in a flutter test in a wind tunnel, and a clip from a different game doesn't support anyone's argument. So that was a pretty pointless exercise!

 

Has anyone actually seen it in the real thing? Or are we just tilting at windmills here?

[mvsgas]

Showing a model in a flutter test in a wind tunnel, and a clip from a different game doesn't support anyone's argument. So that was a pretty pointless exercise!

 

Has anyone actually seen it in the real thing? Or are we just tilting at windmills here?

 

did you read my post?

 

How much are they suppose to flex or buffet?

 

You can see some flutter here around 27:25, but without weapons nor weapon pylons and not know which of the SU-27 family this video is from is does not help at all.

https://youtu.be/tD5VXttYF1A?t=27m25s

they talk a bit about wing flexing here, but I still think we do not have enough specific information about the SU-27 that we have in DCS.

https://youtu.be/pVZbHYDX6ZY?t=8m7s

I figure someone will bring the video up.

Edited January 8, 2016 by mvsgas

[NineLine]

Please dont post videos of other games and sims, ED is in the business of simulating aircraft, not other games. If you have videos of the actual flex of a wing compared to what we have, then submit a bug thread.

[NeilWillis]

did you read my post?

 

Yes, I did read your post, and I still await anyone with any empirical data as to how much flutter and flex there should be in comparison with that currently modelled in DCS World. How much should we see is the question.

 

Showing a wind tunnel test using a Jumbo jet has precious little relevance to that (or did I miss the release of that module somehow?), as I said, and nor does a clip from another simulation.

 

I don't expect any of the contributors here have ever flown a modern combat aircraft and can say with any authority how much flutter and flex is correct or incorrect. All the video footage in the world won't change that unless it is supported with some basic information about the forces involved.

 

How does what you said in your post alter that?

[mvsgas]

Yes, I did read your post, and I still await anyone with any empirical data as to how much flutter and flex there should be in comparison with that currently modelled in DCS World. How much should we see is the question.

 

Showing a wind tunnel test using a Jumbo jet has precious little relevance to that (or did I miss the release of that module somehow?), as I said, and nor does a clip from another simulation.

 

I don't expect any of the contributors here have ever flown a modern combat aircraft and can say with any authority how much flutter and flex is correct or incorrect. All the video footage in the world won't change that unless it is supported with some basic information about the forces involved.

 

How does what you said in your post alter that?

 

It doesn't and I'm not trying to, the opposite in fact, so I guessing your not reading my post.

I was asking watermanpc about his comments here:

Thanks to both guys for the info...I have watched the videos but...well, I think its not as good as it could be, I mean, they flex but they do it very little and they dont VIBRATE as they do in real life...I would love to get something like that:

 

I'm also posting about flutter or buffeting so people can tell what causes it and how it looks like. I also posted I video that I think people could reference to point out it does not have enough information to properly say how much buffeting does the SU-27 encounter if any at all.

[Ala12Rv-watermanpc]

Well, Im not sure what exactly do you guys want me to specify here about how or when a wing should flutter/vibrate/flex but I think its obvious for anyone who (not being a real pilot) has watched lots of videos from cockpit that the flexing is really hard,violent and uses to be followed by vibration (all this is obviously subject to the g load, turn ratio, etc. of ourse)... in those videos of DCS, it looks quite "simple" and unrealistic in terms of not being accompained with proper vibration (or the flexing being totally isolated from the subsequent vibration). I mean, maybe the FLEX is perfectly simulated for a su27 but they didnt modeled the flutter/vibration that FOR SURE should happen.

 

In real life I guess you can make a turn where you SLOWLY decrease the turn ratio and so decrease the probability of vibration but if you just make a hard "stop" in the turn you will have, with all probability, vibration in the wingtips where the propagation of waves through the fuselage is more visible. The same happens in other cases as when a sudden weight is released (missiles, bombs, fuel tanks, etc.).

 

I didnt realized that SU27 had wing flexing because flexing is not so noticeable "usually" (it can be really noticeable) and also because I dont fly with it very often :D but specially because I cant see the wingtips VIBRATING which I also think is the "coolest" effect in visual regards...

 

The best example I think is the video I posted before (its an f18, but I bet su27 would look 99% the same) where you can clearly see what a really "maltreated" fighter wing looks like in terms of flexing and vibrating...and yeah, its REALLY noticeable when it happens.

[NineLine]

Wing flex is only effected by G's right now i think, I dont think its effected by other conditions, so you might not see it move as much as a real aircraft, I could be wrong though.

[Ala12Rv-watermanpc]

Wing flex is only effected by G's right now i think, I dont think its effected by other conditions, so you might not see it move as much as a real aircraft, I could be wrong though.

 

Yes, I see...first reason to create the thread was just "wing flex" but after knowing that at least one aircraft has it implemented (su27) now I would "increase my request" :smilewink: to also include vibrating in the wings due to g load and other factors like I posted before...but I guess it would be already quite nice just having the flexing effect in other aircrafts also...:thumbup:

[mvsgas]

Well, Im not sure what exactly do you guys want me to specify here about how or when a wing should flutter/vibrate/flex but I think its obvious for anyone who (not being a real pilot) has watched lots of videos from cockpit that the flexing is really hard,violent and uses to be followed by vibration (all this is obviously subject to the g load, turn ratio, etc. of ourse)... in those videos of DCS, it looks quite "simple" and unrealistic in terms of not being accompained with proper vibration (or the flexing being totally isolated from the subsequent vibration). I mean, maybe the FLEX is perfectly simulated for a su27 but they didnt modeled the flutter/vibration that FOR SURE should happen.

 

In real life I guess you can make a turn where you SLOWLY decrease the turn ratio and so decrease the probability of vibration but if you just make a hard "stop" in the turn you will have, with all probability, vibration in the wingtips where the propagation of waves through the fuselage is more visible. The same happens in other cases as when a sudden weight is released (missiles, bombs, fuel tanks, etc.).

 

I didnt realized that SU27 had wing flexing because flexing is not so noticeable "usually" (it can be really noticeable) and also because I dont fly with it very often :D but specially because I cant see the wingtips VIBRATING which I also think is the "coolest" effect in visual regards...

 

The best example I think is the video I posted before (its an f18, but I bet su27 would look 99% the same) where you can clearly see what a really "maltreated" fighter wing looks like in terms of flexing and vibrating...and yeah, its REALLY noticeable when it happens.

 

The thing is, not every aircraft will act the same. They are many factors that cause buffeting or wing flex in RL. Certain weapons may cause it, specific speed regions, AOA, material used on the wing, etc. So comparing it to aircraft we have seen or the way we think it is suppose to work does not help nor does it tell us much. For all we know the SU-27 family of aircraft (Su-27, 30, 33, etc.) may not experience any buffeting and it would be hard to tell how much the wings should or should not flex.

[Blaze]

Wing flex is only effected by G's right now i think, I dont think its effected by other conditions, so you might not see it move as much as a real aircraft, I could be wrong though.

 

Only by G at the moment. The wingtips do shake a bit on takeoff too.

[Ala12Rv-watermanpc]

The thing is, not every aircraft will act the same. They are many factors that cause buffeting or wing flex in RL. Certain weapons may cause it, specific speed regions, AOA, material used on the wing, etc. So comparing it to aircraft we have seen or the way we think it is suppose to work does not help nor does it tell us much. For all we know the SU-27 family of aircraft (Su-27, 30, 33, etc.) may not experience any buffeting and it would be hard to tell how much the wings should or should not flex.

 

Im no saying HOW I THINK it should work mate, Im just saying that its obvious that there is something missing in the way they made (in su 27) wings to flex/rattle/flutter/etc... and its not a personal appreciation.

 

Again, Im not telling ED how wings may or may not move/deform dynamically, Im just saying wings are just flexing isolatedly of other factors (vibration, which I think would be great to simulate) as many of you have said (only Gs are affecting wings deformation, and by deformation, Im including vibration)...also, I dont uderstand well what you said about su27 family wings dont rattle/vibrate?¿?¿:huh:maybe im wrong and I dont understand well but if you meant so I think you are wrong...it would be almost impossible to get a perfectly stiff wing so in RL you will get both flex and vibration. Not the best sample, I know, but here you have a su27 showing some noticeable vibration in the wings:

 

[mvsgas]

If I understand, you where saying the wings don't move realistically. I was saying we don't have enough information to know how should it look like realistically. On the video you post the entire aircraft shakes, but I can't tell how much of that vibration is coming from the wing, how much from the tails, or the camera itself. It would be perfect if we can find documentation that states how much vibration, at what speed, etc.

Another thing I was trying to say about the SU-27 family aircraft, they all so similar, it would be hard to tell which version the video is from and if it is comparable to the version we have in DCS.

I was going to write in Spanish to try to explain better, but then I realize that would make it even more confusing, specially since I don't have spell check fro Spanish:)

Edited January 9, 2016 by mvsgas

[Ala12Rv-watermanpc]

If I understand, you where saying the wings don't move realistically. I was saying we don't have enough information to know how should it look like realistically. On the video you post the entire aircraft shakes, but I can't tell how much of that vibration is coming from the wing, how much from the tails, or the camera itself. It would be perfect if we can find documentation that states how much vibration, at what speed, etc.

Another thing I was trying to say about the SU-27 family aircraft, they all so similar, it would be hard to tell which version the video is from and if it is comparable to the version we have in DCS.

I was going to write in Spanish to try to explain better, but then I realize that would make it even more confusing, specially since I don't have spell check fro Spanish:)

 

Well, I would explain myself a lot better in spanish thats for sure :smilewink: but I will try to do my best in english:thumbup:...I think the problem is that we are talking about different things here...Im not saying wings are not moving realistically, Im just saying they look like ONLY flexing is being computed/simulated or whatever and there are other things to consider in wings "movement" being the most "important"/noticeable from a visual approach the vibration/fluctuation/etc that uses to happen in aircrafts (specially very maneuverables ones like fighters) when performing manouvers...

 

If you see fighters cockpit videos where you can see wings, you will very soon realize that wings really flex AND vibrate A LOT, specially vibrate which is even more noticeable than flexing ...so I just want this to be included in DCS :thumbup:

 

I dont need any info or advanced aerodynamic knoledge to tell you if a su27 wing should vibrate when performing monouvers, I can assure you it shoud just DO IT and I cant see that in DCS.The way to do it possible is the part I leave to ED :D

 

So thats the thing, I cant give you actual data/info about how/how much/when/ect a su27 wing should behave but you can be sure about that behaviour is not beig fully represented in DCS right now as there is not ANY vibration in the wings.

 

About the video, well...I see pretty clear that independently where the "shake" comes from, the fact is the wings and wingtips are shaking/vibrating apart from flexing and is not a camera effect (althoug the camera is also shaking of course) so I think again it doesnt matter where the "waves" come from but the fact the wings vibrate and this is not present in DCS and so this is my wish :)

 

Hope to have been clearer this time mate! :thumbup:

[theropod]

+1

wing flex is not easly perceptible on dcs wip aircrafts for now.

for example i had learned about it from a tread.:) not experienced from myself.

but graphical, physical ..etc iprovements continues with updates. i am sure they'll add those kind of properties on future.

 

wing vapor and wing damages will be added too