No one escapes in front of the Russian aircraft

[Ragnarok]

No one escapes in front of the Russian aircraft. Fired missiles only shows my position, nothing more. R-73 not work. Eagle just push 11G and 73 misses. Has never been this exploitation in such a quantity. Each skill is neutralized with exploit. There is no situation from which I have not missed.

 

DCS fighters = Eagles fight

[Erdem]

Eagle too stronk.

[GGTharos]

... Until you apply the same set of maneuvers against it.

[Ragnarok]

Then it is really sad. Races in "exploit" more important than tactics and planning. It all boils down to one move.

 

I noticed that a lot of players who base their game on the opponent's missile detection visually, and then attack, not running away. I'm alive until I not launch a missile. Immediately after my launch, discover me visual, and I'm dead. Absolutely nobody escape, no matter what type of missiles.

 

I think I'm paying the consequences because I don't think like "gaming way" , but the like RL pilot. I must to change complete reorganization of views DCS fight.

[Ragnarok]

I have a suggestion for servers that are very popular. Who was dead, that receives ban for one day. This would have reduced the use of exploit, and many would have acted as the RL.

 

Although a better indicator was when the player goes dead graphics card when is dead :D everyone would behave like real pilots, and ED would not have the trouble of simulates realistic avionics and physics :thumbup:

[rami80]

Don't get me started on how some RL tactics go down the drain. Just one great example is dogfighting in the Su-27 without disengaging ACS. Some people are more than happy to do loops at speeds of 400km/h , its really annoying.

 

It seems that the community is divided into two types of people: The ones that are concerned with RL tactics and systems, and the other group which admittedly play the sim as a game. The later group treating it like a FPS. You can't really dictate how each person plays. Just try joining servers that have the type of players you're fine with. (Hopefully until many of the exploits get patched)

[pepin1234]

R-73 can be a miss in some cases. You need take care about the distance to secure a kill, also if you are close and the enemy is turning hard probably this gone be a miss too.

 

If you do a good BVR, you don't need go often in WVR. When the enemy evade your first BVR missile and try a counterattack, you must shot him before he launch the second attempt . when you launch this second missile you need do a hard maneuver and put your nose 45° to the opposite side of the enemy counterattack. When you do that you avoid he detect you by the missile smoke, because at this moment you already fly to other direction. Also if you keep maneuver with 45° (at 15-20 km is a no way for a autolock) from the enemy at the moment he try an automatic lock you are avoiding an affective automatic lock on you. At this moment, he only have an option, escape.

 

 

Try this.

Edited January 24, 2016 by pepin1234

[Ragnarok]

ok, it may be best to record "exploit", and you to find the solution. your proposition is a multi move fight. Exploit is single move solution for every situation. what I have seen, is that the enemy's large zoom, is used for visual monitoring of over 20 km, no big worries for missiles that goes to him.

 

I will give you track file or ACMI, and you find a solution for "exploit".

[ShadowFrost]

I am not understanding the point of this thread currently, you keep mentioning an exploit and that the f-15 can pull 11g's. Then the title of this thread is that No one escapes in front of the Russian aircraft. Then you go so much to complain about the missiles of the Russian aircraft when I came here thinking that this was a thread about how the Russian aircraft are either over powered, badly modeled, or much more deadly then the F-15. I have found neither of these and if the view options is a problem go on servers that have the view distance settings limited.

I'm still not quite sure as to what the complaint is on this thread because if pulling 11g's in an F-15 (sustained is wrong) but 11g's is feasible given the right conditions. Another reason that RL tactics do suffer in this game is that there is no ROE and IFF for all FC3 aircraft is a 100% correct.

 

Pepin's proposition is also correct. Continuing straight towards your target and not going evasive will get you killed.

Edited January 25, 2016 by ShadowFrost

[JNelson]

Don't get me started on how some RL tactics go down the drain. Just one great example is dogfighting in the Su-27 without disengaging ACS. Some people are more than happy to do loops at speeds of 400km/h , its really annoying.

 

It seems that the community is divided into two types of people: The ones that are concerned with RL tactics and systems, and the other group which admittedly play the sim as a game. The later group treating it like a FPS. You can't really dictate how each person plays. Just try joining servers that have the type of players you're fine with. (Hopefully until many of the exploits get patched)

 

You're telling me if in real life you were a Su-27 pilot in a life or death situation you wouldn't use everything possible to succeed, if you have every sense you'd exhaust your tool box before submitting to the enemy.

 

No one escapes in front of the Russian aircraft. Fired missiles only shows my position, nothing more. R-73 not work. Eagle just push 11G and 73 misses. Has never been this exploitation in such a quantity. Each skill is neutralized with exploit. There is no situation from which I have not missed.

 

DCS fighters = Eagles fight

 

At any reasonable distance the R-73 is near impossible to avoid without a load of flares. You cannot fire a max dynamic range and expect your missile to hit if the guy is pulling 11 G. Missiles are like planes as soon as the rocket motor burns out any hard turns bleed speed, just think about it, if you went mach one in the f15 and then put 0 power and pulled a max G turn you'd be out of energy in seconds so don't expect the missile to just magically retain its energy in a high G turn after burnout. With the tactics go in close and you won't have any problems. When I am flying the eagle for example I only fire Aim-120 at 5-7 Nm well within the max range but it gives the missile spare energy to cope if the guy that you are shooting at defends hard and btw I nearly always get a hit when I fire. I think the problem here is you are getting killed and are unhappy about it. Well if there is anything for certain it is that tactics are always changing you have to be able to adapt to the situation to succeed.

[SinusoidDelta]

ok, it may be best to record "exploit", and you to find the solution. your proposition is a multi move fight. Exploit is single move solution for every situation. what I have seen, is that the enemy's large zoom, is used for visual monitoring of over 20 km, no big worries for missiles that goes to him.

 

I will give you track file or ACMI, and you find a solution for "exploit".

What is the "exploit"?

 

I am confuse. Which one in the list below is the exploit?

1) R77 always hits

2) R77 never hits

3) F-15 wings should break at 11G

4) AIM-120 always hit

 

If people are visual identifying your missile launches at 20nm then that bring up the question; why are you firing at 20nm!?

[GGTharos]

Absolutely not. :)

 

3) F-15 wings should break at 11G

[Sweep]

^Don't think that's what he meant.

[SinusoidDelta]

I meant I have no idea what the issue in question is here.

 

Everything is a contradiction, due to language barrier or otherwise.

 

I was asking Ragnarok to pick which item(s) 1-5 fit his concern.

[Stuge]

Ragna, I see you are not happy with the way people play the game. Thankfully, a single person can not force everyone else to play the game their own way. :)

 

If you want to enforce something you need to make your own server where you make your own rules and enforce them!

 

Regarding "gaming" and "IRL" mentality.. a true soldier uses all means provided to him/her to kill and survive. This is the case both in game and in IRL. If you start forcing imagined IRL variables into the game, you can always do that, but please don't expect everyone to think this way. Each pilot plays the game the way they want to play, not the way you would want them to. Using exploits is in the grey area, up to debate. What some people consider an exploit may not be so for others.

 

Regarding Su-27 I think that with the new R-73 it is more powerful than ever. It sacrifices some max-range performance for extreme close range performance. I've gotten dogfight kills that would have been impossible in DCS 1.2.

 

Su-27 is superior to F-15 in a mountainous terrain, and it is also superior in the upcoming scenario of Joint Warrior where AIM-120, R27ET and R-77 are removed from the equation...

[Iceman1987]

Ragna, I see you are not happy with the way people play the game. Thankfully, a single person can not force everyone else to play the game their own way. :)

 

Regarding Su-27 I think that with the new R-73 it is more powerful than ever. It sacrifices some max-range performance for extreme close range performance. I've gotten dogfight kills that would have been impossible in DCS 1.2.

 

Su-27 is superior to F-15 in a mountainous terrain, and it is also superior in the upcoming scenario of Joint Warrior where AIM-120, R27ET and R-77 are removed from the equation...

 

Although I don't understand what the OP exactly wants, I notice that Russian pilots more often complain then the Eagle drivers. And in some way I can understand that. The advantages that the Russian birds have against the Eagle in BVR is almost disappeared. The Range of The 27ER/ET has been reduced to the point that it has the same range as the AIM-120, and the datalink which would give the SU-27 the situation awareness is not fixed/implemented/turned on.

 

Afcourse in WVR the Flanker has the advantages, but it is quiet hard to merge when there alot of F15 airborne with the better situation awareness.

Most kills are done by F15 online with the AIM-120. The Flanker has a change if the enemy is distracted. This changes when servers enforce the 80's loadout.

[L0op8ack]

After 40 hours flight in 104th server, I got 100 PvP kills.

according to the server stats, cost 3 AIM-120Cs for a hit, 5 for a kill, and >90% kills in 5nm.

 

So, why run away? keep suppress until one of your missile got something.

:P

[Stuge]

After 40 hours flight in 104th server, I got 100 PvP kills.

according to the server stats, cost 3 AIM-120Cs for a hit, 5 for a kill, and >90% kills in 5nm.

 

So, why run away? keep suppress until one of your missile got something.

:P

 

Nice :) I'm sure the Mig-29 is responsible for surviving the most AIM-120 hits! F-15C is unlikely to survive a hit and Su-27.. well I don't remember it ever surviving a hit, not since PFM came :D

[Ragnarok]

ok, guys, thanks, but explain to me everything what with which I am familiar years earlier.

 

task for you: two ACMI, how would you resolve this if you have a skin Su-27?

 

you go in silence, watching RWR, watching visual, I'm looking for smoke. When your enemy shoot, doing this exploit and visually reveal a target on the trail of smoke. do not use radar, afraid you'll have 27, he will flee. Play the easy target, leave him the initiative. You have exploit in every situation. And bum... Last night I tested in 104th., six kills this way. It's funny ... zoom in and you see how Su 27 wriggling.

 

Edit: next time I will record "visual finding to missile" from my cockpit. Its easy.

exploit for F-15.rar

Edited January 25, 2016 by Ragnarok

[Ragnarok]

do you want more exploit in different sutuation? Gave me situation! different aspect, different range, anything else... no radar, just faking it an easy target and attack with AIM-120 in 3nm :D. Easy, very easy... :D

 

... or am I just talented "exploiter" :D

[ShuRugal]

That track with the R-73s is kinda f*ked up, even by recent poor missile seeker performance standards.

 

The R-27 fest is, unfortunately, exactly what happens every time you launch: F-15 driver pulls his stick in the corner, stands on his rudder, and starts dumping chaff like a cropduster, and the 120C performs so well that he can get away with putting himself in such a bad position (kinetically) by mad-dogging a few and laughing.

[OnlyforDCS]

When a BVR missile is only successful when launched from nearly within visual range, or in pitbull range you know that there is a problem.

 

I think this is what the OP wanted to say. I think most of the problems with the multiplayer game in general could be solved by fixing the range and guidance problems of all the BVR missiles in the game. Give the ER, ET, R77, and AIM120 their realistic ranges and people will start implementing proper tactics instead of resorting to air quake to stay alive and get kills. My 2c, for what they are worth...

[Ragnarok]

That track with the R-73s is kinda f*ked up, even by recent poor missile seeker performance standards.

 

The R-27 fest is, unfortunately, exactly what happens every time you launch: F-15 driver pulls his stick in the corner, stands on his rudder, and starts dumping chaff like a cropduster, and the 120C performs so well that he can get away with putting himself in such a bad position (kinetically) by mad-dogging a few and laughing.

 

Tell me why anyone would have a complex philosophy of struggle, because it can always be easy to fight in this way. I am first in selection, for example.

[Stuge]

ok, guys, thanks, but explain to me everything what with which I am familiar years earlier.

 

task for you: two ACMI, how would you resolve this if you have a skin Su-27?

 

you go in silence, watching RWR, watching visual, I'm looking for smoke. When your enemy shoot, doing this exploit and visually reveal a target on the trail of smoke. do not use radar, afraid you'll have 27, he will flee. Play the easy target, leave him the initiative. You have exploit in every situation. And bum... Last night I tested in 104th., six kills this way. It's funny ... zoom in and you see how Su 27 wriggling.

 

Edit: next time I will record "visual finding to missile" from my cockpit. Its easy.

 

Well, this is certainly good to know :D The ER engagement was quite epic haha! I'm not sure I would feel too comfortable flying that slow with the barrel rolls though.

 

As long as ED does nothing about it, I guess it's a viable tactic lol. ER manufacture flaw?

 

To be honest the R-73 evasion technique doesn't look exactly safe though, and merging with a flanker puts you in a bad spot afterwards...

 

But I admit these things could be looked into by ED.

[Ragnarok]

 

As long as ED does nothing about it, I guess it's a viable tactic lol. ER manufacture flaw?

 

ok then, from now on I'm flying only F-15C. And all Flanker pilots also. No problem, the eagle is better, flanker is realistic trash, all flying only F-15. Except masochist :D

 

I'm kidding of course, I am consistent person, though I like both planes... but more Flanker :)