Radar Azimuth?

[nogano00]

I was looking in the controls of the radar to put them on my Hotas I got my TDC slew, radar range but wasn't able to find azimuth. Is there an option to change the altitude scan in the Mirage at all or is it WIP?

[Sarge55]

WIP as far as I understand it. Based on the rate RAZBAM is updating I wouldn't be surprise if it will be done quite soon.

[Azrayen]

Azimuth is a left/right term.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azimuth

 

What you're refering to is the altitude or elevation setting.

 

In the Mirage:

- azimuth is "automatic", it depends on the TDC position and the scan width (60 = antenna scan all the way left/right, 30 & 15 = antenna scans 30 or 15° left/right of the TDC position).

- elevation is set by the pilot, using a control on the front side of the throttle.

 

And I confirm this is not yet implemented.

Edited April 17, 2016 by Azrayen

[nogano00]

Thanks to both of you for very quick replies!

[Sarge55]

Actually, I was under the understanding that there was some ability to also adjust your search cone left and right as well. Not strictly up and down.

[nomdeplume]

Actually, I was under the understanding that there was some ability to also adjust your search cone left and right as well. Not strictly up and down.

That's what Azrayen said; if the scan width is < 60°, then it'll be centred on the TCD position (within the limits of the radar gimbal of course).

[Sarge55]

That's what Azrayen said; if the scan width is < 60°, then it'll be centred on the TCD position (within the limits of the radar gimbal of course).

 

He said that azimuth is automatic and cited the three scan widths as the left/right capability of the radar.

 

My understanding is that you can also adjust the cone search further left or right (perhaps 15 up to 30 deg IDK) and still maintain the standard 60 deg automatic search.

For example, you can cover more sky if you have your wingman search left while you search right which would increase your search area and overlap on your heading.

 

Hope I explained that a bit better or perhaps I'm misunderstanding Azrayen.

[nomdeplume]

Okay I understand you better now, but I think the 60 degrees each side is the limitations of the antenna, i.e. the radar cannot physically move further than that so it would not be able to give ±60 degrees with an offset. I don't see why they would artificially limit the maximum horizontal scan zone if the radar could actually swivel further than that.

 

See also: http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2573013&postcount=2

 

To further clarify: if say you 'centre' the radar at +30°, then to provide ±60° scan the radar would have to traverse from -30° to +90° each sweep, but the radar can physically only move 60° in each direction.

Edited February 29, 2016 by nomdeplume

[Azrayen]

OK let's do this again.

 

[TABLE]Setting (radar panel) | Azimuth coverage | Pilot adjustable?

60° | 120° total (±60° left/right) | No: these are the gimbal limits of the radar

30° | 60° total (±30° left/right) | Yes: by moving the TDC left/right the pilot changes the center of the 60° arc

15° | 30° total (±15° left/right) | Yes: by moving the TDC left/right the pilot changes the center of the 30° arc

[/TABLE]

Edited April 17, 2016 by Azrayen
typo TCD=>TDC

[PB0_CEF]

Yes it can be interesting to scan left or right with a narrow radar cone for a better refresh rate but it seems that in Mirage 2000 we will not have to change the radar cone position manually : only move the TDC to the right or left ... ;)

[Zeus67]

Yes it can be interesting to scan left or right with a narrow radar cone for a better refresh rate but it seems that in Mirage 2000 we will not have to change the radar cone position manually : only move the TDC to the right or left ... ;)

 

I am working on Azimuth and Elevation control rights now. Be patient, it will be available on the next update.

[Sarge55]

No hurry Zeus, just sorting it out for future use. When you are ready...

[Sarge55]

OK let's do this again.

 

[TABLE]Setting (radar panel) | Azimuth coverage | Pilot adjustable?

60° | 120° total (±60° left/right) | No: these are the gimbal limits of the radar

30° | 60° total (±30° left/right) | Yes: by moving the TCD left/right the pilot changes the center of the 60° arc

15° | 30° total (±15° left/right) | Yes: by moving the TCD left/right the pilot changes the center of the 30° arc

[/TABLE]

 

Perfect. Thank you for the table Azrayen, explains it well. :thumbup:

[nogano00]

OK let's do this again.

 

[TABLE]Setting (radar panel) | Azimuth coverage | Pilot adjustable?

60° | 120° total (±60° left/right) | No: these are the gimbal limits of the radar

30° | 60° total (±30° left/right) | Yes: by moving the TCD left/right the pilot changes the center of the 60° arc

15° | 30° total (±15° left/right) | Yes: by moving the TCD left/right the pilot changes the center of the 30° arc

[/TABLE]

 

So as far as I understand the setting on the radar that makes the scan line go off the radar screen is 120 degrees total? I don't know if you understand what I mean by that.

[PiedDroit]

So as far as I understand the setting on the radar that makes the scan line go off the radar screen is 120 degrees total? I don't know if you understand what I mean by that.

Yes.

 

it goes off screen only because the VTB is too small to display the full 120° pie-shaped coverage.

If you switch to B-scope you'll be able to see the full 120°

 

Note that if you're using one of the smaller coverage modes, you wiil be able to make the radar sweep go off screen again by steering the radar azimuth to the left or to the right (but it will still be limited by the 120° coverage).

[Coder]

OK let's do this again.

 

[TABLE]Setting (radar panel) | Azimuth coverage | Pilot adjustable?

60° | 120° total (±60° left/right) | No: these are the gimbal limits of the radar

30° | 60° total (±30° left/right) | Yes: by moving the TCD left/right the pilot changes the center of the 60° arc

15° | 30° total (±15° left/right) | Yes: by moving the TCD left/right the pilot changes the center of the 30° arc

[/TABLE]

 

Does that mean that when I lock a target while I'm in the 30° mode, I can only put the target 30° to my right / left while I'm maneuvering. In 60° mode, I can put the target 60° to my right / left while notching?

[Azrayen]

No I was describing the search mode, so no lock.

 

With a target locked;

- in PIC (STT) there is no question that the radar follows the target to the best of its abilities (gimbal limits) regardless of the TDC position => notch all you want.

- in PID (TWS) mode, it's an interesting question; I can't tell for sure.

 

I see 3 possible implementations in PID (TWS):

1/ the locked target takes precedence over the TDC position i.e. the target becomes the center of the focus (in azimuth); we have then to ask if it also takes precedence in elevation over the setting by the pilot (roller control on the throttle)?

2/ the locked target is still tracked by the radar + the radar still scans for other targets in azimuths according to the TDC; this looks overly complicated + if the target is full left and the TDC full right, that would make the radar to "loose time" for nothing, don't you think?

3/ the lock is lost if the target comes out of the "restricted" scan zone set by the elevation and azimuth.

 

If I had to bet, my money would be on 1. Because it seems more logical/practical/useful IMO.

 

 

++

Az'

Edited April 17, 2016 by Azrayen

[Sarge55]

I second your bet. No 1 makes the most sense to me as well.

[Voodooflies]

OK let's do this again.

 

[TABLE]Setting (radar panel) | Azimuth coverage | Pilot adjustable?

60° | 120° total (±60° left/right) | No: these are the gimbal limits of the radar

30° | 60° total (±30° left/right) | Yes: by moving the TCD left/right the pilot changes the center of the 60° arc

15° | 30° total (±15° left/right) | Yes: by moving the TCD left/right the pilot changes the center of the 30° arc

[/TABLE]

 

Now that's clear as crystal, thank you ! ;)