Crimea Map

[xisko]

is out there any posibility of change the actual crimea map for another one, for ex: a part of europe?

 

Regards

[Brit_Radar_Dude]

Short answer - No.

 

Longer answer - from what I have read in the past on the Forums, it took the Devs several man-years of effort to generate the Crimea/Caucasus map for Lockon (and that was with the Crimea part inherited from the predecessor Sim Flanker 2.51). Rumours are that the payware add-on Black Shark will have a little more terrain in the South Caucasus to complete the Georgian coast area down to the Turkish border.

To do a completely new map would be a lot of money / effort and simply is not going to happen for Lockon.

[xisko]

Sorry, but, simply i cant believe it. I work on games development too, and i cant believe make a map takes years of effor. Maybe from our friends of ED it should be, but, then they re doing something very wrong. From my experience with a good engine and taking the height maps from a real map it can take some months of work with a good froup of people, at least we do.

 

We can make a height map from any program and convert it to our engine in minutes... and i know a lot studios do the same.

 

Sorry again but i cant believe it.

[ALDEGA]

Ofcourse ED didn't create the map entirely manually. But there is plenty of manual work involved.

And ED doesn't have 20 people sitting around, waiting to create new maps.

 

Take a look here, for an explanation of how ED created the maps for Lockon (which are quite accurate):

http://lockon.co.uk/index.php?end_pos=10&scr=list&lang=en

[zaelu]

Maybe at this moment is easier but, when Lock On entered production (years ago)I think things worked slower.

 

We can't be shure what future will bring in LO in this matter but we know that ED dont have much time for this :noexpression: ...AFAIK.

[GGTharos]

Sure, you can stick in a height map.

 

What about roads, villages, buildings, the little castles and all that? All of this takes time! Each individual details, each building that needs to be positioned - each tree ... it all takes time!

[SuperKungFu]

yea lock on features the most detailed map i had ever seen in a flight sim- and accurate too. One time i flew by the coast and saw a football field, i thought it was a little odd it would be there but once i checked it up on google earth, it was indeed there.

[Guest IguanaKing]

Yup, and the little parks around ponds with the trees and fences around them, the fully detailed and operational cranes in the harbors. Xisko, have you tried taking an F11 camera tour of Sevastopol? Try it some time, the detail is pretty amazing.

[hitman]

Nothing like buzzing the populace in downtown Sevstopol at mach 1 at 15agl...

[Guest Cali]

yea lock on features the most detailed map i had ever seen in a flight sim- and accurate too. One time i flew by the coast and saw a football field, i thought it was a little odd it would be there but once i checked it up on google earth, it was indeed there.

 

Who was winning?

[SuperKungFu]

lol sorry thats what i meant soccer field. Well some countires call football soccer so i wasn't wrong :P

[Alfa]

I saw a soccer field. Never saw any uprights like you'd see on a football field.

 

Tsk - there are no uprights on a football field ruggbutt ;) :D .

 

Cheers,

- JJ.

[Guest Cali]

lol sorry thats what i meant soccer field. Well some countires call football soccer so i wasn't wrong :P

 

SO who was playing?

[hitman]

According to this, much of the terrain generation is automated.

http://www.thebattlesim.com/?end_pos=10&lang=en&scr=list&page=1#463

 

thebattlesim, by ED, will feature a simple to use terrain making tool. AFAIK, it won't be available to the public, however. :(

Theres always TerraGen...

http://www.greycobra.com/tutorials/browse/terragen/page-1.html

[Olgerd]

Sorry, but, simply i cant believe it. I work on games development too, and i cant believe make a map takes years of effor. Maybe from our friends of ED it should be, but, then they re doing something very wrong. From my experience with a good engine and taking the height maps from a real map it can take some months of work with a good froup of people, at least we do.

 

We can make a height map from any program and convert it to our engine in minutes... and i know a lot studios do the same.

 

Sorry again but i cant believe it.

 

There are four major problems.

1) Roads. AI use them, so they all must be correctly connected;

2) Buildings. You have make and place them manually anyway;

3) Height maps need a lot of "fine tuning" especially when you are placing buildings and roads;

4) Trees must be placed correctly (i.e. they must not grow from the center of a runway or from a building). We have about a million (can be wrong with the actual number) of trees in the entire region.

 

P.S.

Of course we are working to automate the process, and everything is not final...

[Guest Cali]

There are four major problems.

1) Roads. AI use them, so they all must be correctly connected;

2) Buildings. You have make and place them manually anyway;

3) Height maps need a lot of "fine tuning" especially when you are placing buildings and roads;

4) Trees must be placed correctly (i.e. they must not grow from the center of a runway or from a building). We have about a million (can be wrong with the actual number) of trees in the entire region.

 

P.S.

Of course we are working to automate the process, and everything is not final...

 

Sounds good

[Olgerd]

With all respect, how do you justify this quote then?

 

http://www.thebattlesim.com/?end_pos=9&lang=en&scr=list&page=1#546

 

"Terrain

 

-Terrain from any part of the world and to any level of detail can be developed in a short time frame."

 

How short does ED consider a "short timeframe?"

 

Would militaries be given a "terrain lite" version of the map making utility?

 

We have the experience with height maps import. Results were very positive there. But generally if we are talking about a short period of time it would be like you said "terrain lite" - with less amount of buildings, roads, etc...

[Olgerd]

Also, Birdy had been editing trees around bases wthout the ED land editing utility (which I'm sure can render, in real time, what the trees will look like on the map) and he's gotten great results, in relatively very little time. He's punching in all the trees by coordinates and cross-checking by loading the game. Now, imagine what could be done if he had access to ED's editing utility...

 

I am talking about the entire region, not only about areas near airbases.

[Olgerd]

Okay. Thanks for the reply. I respect and appreciate what you guys do. I just wish that I had the tools to make terrains. :(

 

I know myself, and others, would gladly do this for free. Or, like, $1.00 for "consideration," to make it all legal.

 

I see. Be patient, terrain is the subject to change now. Later we would think about releasing some tools.

[Olgerd]

Thanks for your time.

 

Heh. Np. ;)

[xisko]

Damn pixels uh? those bastards make my terrain blocky.

 

we use brushes to put trees, wherever the area is painted green the trees appear in the engine, grass, buildings, roads, and everything goes the same too. I know is fine to see a football camp in the city, but at 15.000 ft with Migs at my 6... who cares!!.

[Weta43]

The people at 30m in the Ka-50 (or the Su-25, or the Su-25T or the A-10)

[xisko]

ur right :P

[Gunja]

ILater we would think about releasing some tools.

WOW...now this sounds exciting !!! :thumbup:

more exciting than BS (to me)

[Brit_Radar_Dude]

With all respect, how do you justify this quote then?

Terrain from any part of the world and to any level of detail can be developed in a short time frame."

Short time frame means different things to different folks. To a guy in the street, it might mean a few weeks. To a military customer used to (eg.) 5-10 years to get a new weapon system developed, a short time frame might mean 2 years! Also, these are terms used by sales and marketing people - acknowledged as being about as trustworthy as real estate brokers.:music_whistling: I've posted this before a couple of years ago, but it illustrates my point.

 

This what defense contractor marketing departments say and really mean........

 

They said: "Feasability studies are complete and we are in pre-production"

They mean: "Two of our guys have talked about it by the water cooler...."

 

They said: "This product is in production "

They mean: "....and they figured out what colour to paint it"

 

They said: "This product is in post-production "

They mean: "We have sent someone out for a tin of green paint"

 

They said: "This product is off the shelf"

They mean: "We already have a tin of green paint"

 

They said: "This product is off the shelf but is easy to modify to your (winter) specifications"

They mean: "We already have a tin of green paint, we can buy a tin of white and charge you for both"

 

They said: "Our skilled team are ready to modify the product to your specifications"

They mean: "We have hired a guy who can paint, he has his own brush"

 

They said: "This product is easy to modify by the end user"

They mean: "We can sell you a 30,000 dollar paint brush"