CDU Button Font

[Wayan]

Hi guys!

 

Does anybody know what font is used on the CDU buttons?

Definitely it's not the MS33558 Font, it looks a bit like Arial, at least for the "Q", but it seems the B and F looks different...

 

Thanks in advance

Wayan

[LynxDK]

Take a look at NewsGoth BT

 

But the G isnt right, but you can just use another one for that.

[hegykc]

It's not "MS33558 Font", because MS33558 is not a "Font" it's a military specification for letters and numerals used on cockpit equipment and instrumentation.

 

Problem is, the free "MS33558 Font" everyone here has, was traced from the millspec low quality pdf picture that was screenshot and then sent by a fax to a graphic artist. Someone from this community asked him as a favor to recreate the font. So it's a "look alike", not by any means a geometric/parametric recreation so there are many things wrong. Height to width ratios are wrong, line width to font size ratio is wrong, W/M/Q ratios to other letters are wrong, spacing is wrong etc. Basically every detail is wrong, because it was done for free and as quick as possible. Not that there's anything wrong with that, it is free after all. It's just that it was traced over an example picture, not designed after the parametric specs within that particular military specification, and without any geometric relations in the letter elements and between the letters/numbers themselves.

 

So the letters and numerals you see on the A-10 CDU are exactly MS33558, but not the "MS33558 Font" you can download for free.

Edited March 13, 2016 by hegykc

[Wayan]

Yeah, i know that it is a military specification, but there is only one font available ;)

 

I mixed it with Arial now, let's see how it looks.

 

Thank you for the information @all :)

[hansangb]

Huh...you learn something new everyday. I've been trying out different fonts as well. So long as it comes close, I'm good. I'm not shooting for exact replica.

[Deadman]

Your basically wrong here the MS33558 spec covers one letter and numerical style that was used on older panels and is now available as a commercial font. MS33558 does not control or dictate the style or type of font that can be used on an aircraft"s interior panels M I L - M - 1 8 0 1 2 B would cover that and other specifics dealing with panels. You are correct that the free MS 33558 font is completely messed up but so is F16 Panel Font available on the same site. http://www.simpits.org/fileproc/showfiles.php you will all so see that the file more that likely originated there the original post of the gif file by Gene B and the original font by Derek Higgs in 2002 are there.

your last statement about the MS33558 font

"So the letters and numerals you see on the A-10 CDU are exactly MS33558, but not the "MS33558 Font" you can download for free."

is complete nonsense. M I L - M - 1 8 0 1 2 B is what you need to read.

 

It's not "MS33558 Font", because MS33558 is not a "Font" it's a military specification for letters and numerals used on cockpit equipment and instrumentation.

 

Problem is, the free "MS33558 Font" everyone here has, was traced from the millspec low quality pdf picture that was screenshot and then sent by a fax to a graphic artist. Someone from this community asked him as a favor to recreate the font. So it's a "look alike", not by any means a geometric/parametric recreation so there are many things wrong. Height to width ratios are wrong, line width to font size ratio is wrong, W/M/Q ratios to other letters are wrong, spacing is wrong etc. Basically every detail is wrong, because it was done for free and as quick as possible. Not that there's anything wrong with that, it is free after all. It's just that it was traced over an example picture, not designed after the parametric specs within that particular military specification, and without any geometric relations in the letter elements and between the letters/numbers themselves.

 

So the letters and numerals you see on the A-10 CDU are exactly MS33558, but not the "MS33558 Font" you can download for free.

[hegykc]

When you say something is complete nonsense, that would mean that 0% of it is correct.

 

From your M I L - M - 1 8 0 1 2 B:

 

"3.1.1.1 Letter and numera design. Letters and numerals on instruments and indicators shall conform to MS33558."

 

"3.1.2 Control panels.

3.1.2.1 Letter design. The recommended letter form is shown on figure 1."

(have you seen figure 1??? It's a completely different font I have never seen on a military panel, I've included it in the attachment)"

 

also in 3.1.2.1 for Control panel letter design:

"The letter designs shown in MS33558 are acceptable for parts covered by this specification."

 

So the font style on all military panels is MS33558, with the geometrical parameters explained in MIL-M-18012B. But this parameters can be applied to any font. It is MS33558 that defines the FONT (it even says so in MIL-M-18012B).

 

So much for my 'complete nonsense'.

 

And if you're referring to this commercial font:

http://www.myfonts.com/fonts/urw/gordon/

It has many aspects that are just as wrong as the free one.

Edited March 14, 2016 by hegykc

[Deadman]

Yes I have you might want to re read it as you have just corrected

your self the the description of the fonts acceptable are explained in MIL-M-18012B

MS33558 is a lay out size and spacing are cover in this pub. 3.1.2.1.1 Letter spacing

3.1.2.1 Letter design. The *recommended*

letter form is shown on figure 1. This font is

available for paste-up layout work, in double

the specified sizes, as Artype S-274. The

letter designs shows in MS33558 are acceptable

for parts covered by this specification.

The following commercial fonts having the

size ratios specified herein for the classes and

types of control panels coverered by this specification

may be used. Stroke width of engraved

letters shall be the same as that of

the acceptable type fonts of the same letter

heights.

(a) Fonts for engraving:

(1) Gorton extended

(2) Groton normal

(3) Gorton condensed

(b) Fonts for printing and other reproduction

methods:

(1) Airport semibold

(2) Futura demibold

(3) Vogue medium

(4) Lining Gothic No. 66

(5) Alternate Gothic No. 3

 

Do you have any real panels have you looked at the lay out on the? spacing can be messed up some panels have a range of narrow med and bolder letters on them.

Could you please quote your reference for this assumption"So the font style on all military panels is MS33558, with the geometrical parameters explained in MIL-M-18012B. But this parameters can be applied to any font. It is MS33558 that defines the FONT (it even says so in MIL-M-18012B)."?

Calling every font MS33558 is confusing and makes no scene gordon fonts work fine along with other commercial available fonts I have spent many hours coping real panels in to dxf files.

 

But you know this is a waist of time

Edited March 14, 2016 by Deadman

[hegykc]

Font style is as pictured in MS33558. Font geometry is as explained in MIL-M-18012B. That font geometry can be applied to Figure 1, MS33558, GordDon, GorTon, Arial or Times New Roman. Or any other font for that matter. MIL-M-18012B mentions 9 fonts that are acceptable. That's why it's not a "font milspec", MS33558 is. MIL-M-18012B describes the geometry those font styles have to comply to. And none of those commercial fonts do.

 

Problem is, MIL-M-18012B proposes different ratios for different font sizes. Letters and numerals smaller than 0.2" have 1/6 height to width ratio, and those bigger than 0.2" have 1/8 ratio, that's why the small panel letters are bulky and thick, and the big CDU letters are thin.

 

You're the perfectionist, doesn't the "Q" bother you in these commercial fonts? Or that you will never get the right ratios because they're fixed to only one ratio in the commercial font?

 

I know you like to find errors in other peoples posts. But you won't find one in mine. MIL-M-18012B is a milspec describing geometry for ALL cockpit markings: dashes, arrows, dots, instrument graduations, letters and numerals. The milspec that describes the graphic/visual style of the font, is MS33558, as you can only show a font by a picture, you can't explain it by text. And the picure in the Figure 1 is not the font used. Just read the titles.

Edited March 14, 2016 by hegykc

[Deadman]

Hum you seam to be adding new problems. I am at work so I will check on your size references later.

Could you be specific on the panel your asking about the Q the CDU or another? What is you problem with it? Your not being specific.

Edited March 14, 2016 by Deadman

[Deadman]

Your right i am wrong I think cant really fallow your train of thought and you have not answer my question so have a nice day. I would not take any advice from this guy on cockpit building though. Do your own research and make up your own mind guys.

[Wayan]

Wow, that escalated a bit :) Sorry for that.

 

As i said, i mixes up arial and the ms33558 font - if i don't forget, i'll show you a screenshot.

 

Greetings

[hegykc]

Deadman you called my post 'complete nonsense' for telling someone MS33558 is a milspec dictating the style of font used on aircraft panels and referring them to MIL-M-18012B, where it explicitly says:

 

"The letter designs shown in MS33558 are acceptable for parts covered by this specification." - MIL-M-18012B, 3.1.2.1

 

Why you would be so rude, condescending and use such tactics and hair splitting is beyond me. All I did was politely explain the situation behind the "MS335588 free font" and point him to a picture and visual representation of a type of font he should be looking for without getting into minute geometric details explained in MIL-M-18012B, which I would do after the OP gave his feedback. MS33558 is the military spec for font style, MIL-M-18012B is a spec covering design requirements and configuration, ie. sizes of that particular font and all other markings in a cockpit.

 

And you follow that by saying not to take any advice on cockpit building from me. Such a nice guy.

Edited March 15, 2016 by hegykc

[markjhall]

I saw a nice old document here ref the "Gordon" fonts:

http://luc.devroye.org/fonts-80708.html

[Brewnix]

I saw a nice old document here ref the "Gordon" fonts:

http://luc.devroye.org/fonts-80708.html

That's a nice find I found the font googling and I think the "Gordon Condensed" font looks really close to MS33558 font that I been using. The problem that have arised with the MS33558 font ill be switching to it if looks good in fusion 360.. old thread but good find!