Spotting Targets

[AstroEma]

How do you guys spot targets on the ground?? I am doing the mission Weapons training and it took me 30 min to find the targets!

 

Any hints?

 

Thanks!

e.

[apolloace]

The TGP is bugged, so it is very difficult to find targets on the ground.

Try placing targets on the road for practice missions. They are much more

easier to spot.

[711]

Скачай в файлах пользователей мод специальный он делает обнаружение целей легче.

[711]

https://cloud.mail.ru/public/KAob/C623zmtHR Попробуй это.

[apolloace]

Скачай в файлах пользователей мод специальный он делает обнаружение целей легче.

 

English Please!!

 

[711]

http://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/1460269/

[AstroEma]

Apollo: ah, I thought it was just me. I actually changed the waypoint altitude to 100Mt and I could easily find all of the targets. Hopefully the TGP will be fixed soon.

 

711: wish I could read Russian. I will try to translate.

[paulca]

What I find annoying about the TGP is

 

1. resolution. The ground textures blur out while the targets stay high res. This actually makes them harder to spot. If only the textures used by the TGP could be uber high res and stay useful when full zoomed, even from 4 or 5nm.

 

2. The ground textures themselves. It seems that for the 'scrub land' style textures ED went out and took a photo of a field full of cars, tanks and trucks. I swear for every real target there are 10 false ones. There are parts of the textures that look absolutely identical to a tank or artilery piece. The only way to work out it's not is to zoom all the way in and see if it goes blocky like the ground textures.

 

3. The IR simulation is pants. Those same patches of terrain texture in 2 above SHOULD NOT glow in infra-red, yet they do.

 

4. Towns and trees. Next to impossible to spot anything in them.

 

5. Small AAA emplacements are impossible to see.

[AstroEma]

Totally agree with you on that.

What I allowing annoying is that there's no feedback on the right mfd while creating mark points.

I would have that they would have some kind of feedback instead of having to look on the TAD.

[SPAS79]

What I find annoying about the TGP is

 

3. The IR simulation is pants. Those same patches of terrain texture in 2 above SHOULD NOT glow in infra-red, yet they do.

 

4. Towns and trees. Next to impossible to spot anything in them.

 

True Story. I find the glowing, hot terrain patches rather annoying. Also, trees seem to be hotter than a running tank...

 

Sent from mobile, please excuse any typos.

[StrongHarm]

From a previous thread:

 

WarriorX's radio guide is thoroughly good.

 

 

 

Spotting Targets:

1. MK1 Eyeball

2. TGP AG

3. TGP AA

4. Maverick Slave

 

General Notes - Be sure to utilize one of the best aspects of your Hawg.. the ability to fly slow. I like to get 8-10k, decrease my thrust to 70-75% to maintain between 180 and 200ks, and use my autopilot so I can focus on my MFDs or out the canopy. Remember to keep your eye on the TAD and maintain situational awareness.. always know where you are. Depending on the terrain and my separation, I'll use either a box pattern with Alt/Hdg autopilot or an slow circular orbit with alt autopilot.

 

1. MK1 Eyeball - You'd be suprised how much you can spot with your eyes. I like to zoom in and change my TrackIR to Precision Mode ( I use alt+F7, default is just F7 ). Look for dust plumes for moving targets. For non-moving targets look for an area where secondary fires are already burning from the battle. If you have stationary targets that are masked by terrain and haven't been engaged, they can be very difficult to find. In this case I just send in my wingman.. he has impeccable vision! If you do spot a target with your eye there are a number of ways that you can go about getting your TGP on it. Since I'm already viewing it with my eye, I'll usually just bring the aircraft about and use the Target Designation Cue. This is the box that's slaved to your TVV until you make HUD SPI and slew.. you can slew the TDC down to our target, then TMS ForLong to make it SPI. The other method I've used is to compare the terrain to the TAD, get a rough idea of distance with your eye (at 10k ft, objects even with your wingtip are about 10-12nm away.. use your wing as a ruler), slew the TGP diamond over to the approx area while watching the TAD. You can also hook your TAD cursor so you can get a hdg/dis to the spot. You can then create a markpoint and slave all to SPI. PLEASE someone tell me if there's a better way to do this (see edit for answer):

*Make TAD SOI

*Change to Hook Cursor

*Change FOV to EXP1 or 2 (china forShort)

*Slew cursor around and you can see hdg/dis on lower right

*Create a markpoint then set it as SPI, slave all to SPI to view on TGP

 

 

2. TGP AG - Besides the obvious 'slew around till you hit paydirt' aspects, there are a few things I like to do:

*Hit CTRL+kpd0 then kpd6 to view only the right MFD

*Use coolie down to swap MFDs often and check your position on the TAD

*Change from BHOT to WHOT to CCD often to reveal targets by contrast

*Turn your gain all the way up (OSB 19/20?) then back 1 or 2 until the terrain isn't washed out. This will make objects jump out nicely.

*Refocus often (DMS Left Short)

*Change FOV wide/narrow often

 

3. TGP AA - I've had some success in finding objects using TGP AA mode. You'll notice that, unlike AG mode, AA RATES will automatically point out any obvious silhouette with an additional moving cross. The problem with that is it points to buildings, electric poles, etc, as well as aircraft and ground vehicles. To use this effectively you have to have a good standoff distance of 10+nm. Make sure the search area is within a 45deg cone from your nose. You can make an object SPI from this mode, and mark it, just like TGP.AG mode.

 

4. Maverick Slave - I've had little success using this method, atleast with MAV-Ds. Although the mav computer will lock on silhouettes, it's hard (since mav is WIP) to get a good visual description of what your mav is tracking unless you're very close (<5nm or <)

EDIT: See this post for mav stabilization and more efficient use - http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=1138499#post1138499

 

Hope these methods cut your training time. I'm looking forward to reading about other methods.

 

EDIT: Markpoint with TAD:

* TAD is SOI

* Slew TAD cursor to desired position

* TMS Right Short

* Markpoint will be created at TAD cursor position

* Gerry Abbot Video:

 

Edited March 21, 2016 by StrongHarm

[AvgWhiteGuy]

First, thanks to StrongHarm for the 'Spotting Targets:' comments above in this thread. That made me read the Flight Manual for the 'umpteen' time; focusing on the TAD (starting on page 299). I'm relatively new at this (less than 200 hrs) but it gave me an idea about 'hooking' and what my job is supposed to be; providing CAS (not just killing shit). So I tried this tonight, it really worked for me....I hope this makes sense; it seems a variation of what StrongHarm was talking about.

 

Use the TAD to locate friendlies marked by the 'X'. I'm not sure who they ALL are but it obviously includes FACs (stationary & in vehicles). I was going after those in the front lines that might be more engaged in the battle and needed a little 'Love from Above'. Then I use the TAD Cursor to 'hook' them and TMS ForLong to make them SPI and slave the TGP.

 

Then I use the TGP to start looking ahead of them in a scanning pattern and BINGO!!!, there the enemy be :) So I 'markpoint' the enemy (TMS Right Short) and I enter them on the CDU, scan a little further around, consider my loadout and plan my attack. At one point I had 3 new target groups (8 targets) in the CDU in less than a minute while loitering at 10,000. Then I became the Hand of God...hehehehe!!

 

The coolest part of this tonight was one of the friendlies I 'hooked' was an Abrams already engaged and obviously he had been hit but not yet out of the fight. His adversary didn't fare so well after a little Uranium CM fairy dust from above :)

 

As StrongHarm said 'Hope these methods cut your training time.' I too am looking forward to reading about other methods.

 

Cheers,

[SharpeXB]

A great way to spot targets is to draw their fire. Practice your threat avoidance so you don't get hit and get them to shoot at you. Then use one of the methods above to target them.

There's also a method described elsewhere here to triangulate radar threats using your RWR.

If you're avoiding a SAM and you time it right, turn into the launch point and at the same time put your TDC on the plume location and SPI it. Now you've got em.

[Vitormouraa]

The TGP is bugged, so it is very difficult to find targets on the ground.

Try placing targets on the road for practice missions. They are much more

easier to spot.

 

I think it's not the TGP, but the ground. Just use the Barthek's mod and you'll see what is bugged..

[StrongHarm]

This is what I love about DCS; it gives us the opportunity (should we each so choose to slow down enough and understand it) of experiencing the tactical advantages provided to the modern warfighter. You utilized the tools available in achieving superior situational awareness and you "cheated the battlefield". Most civilians would otherwise not even understand that this is possible.

 

Consider the discussions around Desert Storm, where coalition forces were vastly outnumbered but destroyed the enemy with almost no losses (73 easting for example). People said "oh, it must have been an unfair fight with an unprepared enemy." No.. this was the 4th largest force in the world which was arguably the most battle hardened. What allowed us to "cheat the battlefield" was our superior TTP and situational awareness.

 

To be able to experience this first hand on a Saturday afternoon, while sipping a glass of scotch, is something for which I'll never be able to thank ED enough.

 

First, thanks to StrongHarm for the 'Spotting Targets:' comments above in this thread. That made me read the Flight Manual for the 'umpteen' time; focusing on the TAD (starting on page 299). I'm relatively new at this (less than 200 hrs) but it gave me an idea about 'hooking' and what my job is supposed to be; providing CAS (not just killing shit). So I tried this tonight, it really worked for me....I hope this makes sense; it seems a variation of what StrongHarm was talking about.

 

Use the TAD to locate friendlies marked by the 'X'. I'm not sure who they ALL are but it obviously includes FACs (stationary & in vehicles). I was going after those in the front lines that might be more engaged in the battle and needed a little 'Love from Above'. Then I use the TAD Cursor to 'hook' them and TMS ForLong to make them SPI and slave the TGP.

 

Then I use the TGP to start looking ahead of them in a scanning pattern and BINGO!!!, there the enemy be :) So I 'markpoint' the enemy (TMS Right Short) and I enter them on the CDU, scan a little further around, consider my loadout and plan my attack. At one point I had 3 new target groups (8 targets) in the CDU in less than a minute while loitering at 10,000. Then I became the Hand of God...hehehehe!!

 

The coolest part of this tonight was one of the friendlies I 'hooked' was an Abrams already engaged and obviously he had been hit but not yet out of the fight. His adversary didn't fare so well after a little Uranium CM fairy dust from above :)

 

As StrongHarm said 'Hope these methods cut your training time.' I too am looking forward to reading about other methods.

 

Cheers,

[SPAS79]

A great way to spot targets is to draw their fire. Practice your threat avoidance so you don't get hit and get them to shoot at you. Then use one of the methods above to target them.

There's also a method described elsewhere here to triangulate radar threats using your RWR.

If you're avoiding a SAM and you time it right, turn into the launch point and at the same time put your TDC on the plume location and SPI it. Now you've got em.

 

Heard that thing about drawing fire, that doesn't really sound right to me. Why risk a multi-million jet AND your life performing stunts? I would not be so sure that would be an acceptable TTP IRL. Generally people tend to prefer standoff range/weapons.

 

Also, the RWR triangulation is a nice method, time consuming but nice. Again, IRL I suspect AWACS would help providing directions to threats in the area - possibly target prioritization or a AFAC kind of capability, relieving pilots from having to find their targets.

 

 

...aaaand, I have installed Barthek's mod (http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=132444) and that kind of fixes it. I believe the alpha channel or whatever ED is using for the terrain textures needs to be revised...

[SharpeXB]

Heard that thing about drawing fire, that doesn't really sound right to me. Why risk a multi-million jet AND your life performing stunts? I would not be so sure that would be an acceptable TTP IRL. Generally people tend to prefer standoff range/weapons.

I think tricking the enemy into giving away their position by opening fire is one of the oldest tactics in warfare.

Tracers point both ways, so once an enemy starts shooting they're easy to target.

There are certain avoidance maneuvers you can use to foil their attacks and remain safe while you plan a counterattack.

[SPAS79]

I think tricking the enemy into giving away their position by opening fire is one of the oldest tactics in warfare.

Tracers point both ways, so once an enemy starts shooting they're easy to target.

There are certain avoidance maneuvers you can use to foil their attacks and remain safe while you plan a counterattack.

 

True, although I still feel uncomfortable with that approach.

 

And, it still doesn't fix the glowing hot terrain/trees at night...

[kerlix]

I've managed to increase my luck (greatly) in spotting targets by adjusting the gain, as well as the LVL setting on the TGP.

 

I've found that by setting the gain to 5 or 6, then messing with the level (usually notching it up once or twice), it really helps bring out the targets against the terrain.

 

 

Don't forget guys, while this may be slightly bugged, when the Hawgs are searching IRL, it isn't completely and effortlessly easy.

 

 

Give ED time and hopefully they'll work on it making it a little easier for us. Until then, I'm quite happy using the method described above to find targets.

 

 

As for the drawing fire, I believe it's referred to as "Wild Weasel". One plane flies low and fast hoping to draw tracers while another orbits above looking for source of said tracers. That source typically doesn't maintain a heartbeat for much longer after that.

[SharpeXB]

True, although I still feel uncomfortable with that approach.

Well definitely you need to keep your head on a swivel. The AAA can be avoided easy enough if you can spot it. Keep it on your 3:00 or 9:00 and just pitch up or down and it will miss.

IR SAMs are tough because all your warning might be seeing the smoke. And maybe a Missile warning on your RWR. But just dodge it and note its location. Then mark it for you or your wingman.

[kobac]

You are completely misunderstood. This is not on the method of detecting the vehicle on the ground or avoiding the opponent's fire and missiles, but the heavy spotting them, either with the naked eye or through targeting pods (shkval also), since latest patches or two. Look at the topic title.

Edited March 23, 2016 by kobac

[SharpeXB]

How do you guys spot targets on the ground?? I am doing the mission Weapons training and it took me 30 min to find the targets!

 

Any hints?

 

Thanks!

e.

Ok back to the original topic. If you are at the stage of doing the training missions. Just turn on the icons. There's plenty to learn without the added difficulty of spotting targets. Take it one step at a time.

[AstroEma]

Thanks Guys for all the information you are giving!

Seriously a wealth of info!

 

I have turned on Large Icons and Labels, and it is easier to find targets, but still it should be more obvious than it is. I do not believe it is as difficult in real life to spot something on the ground, be it either infantry or ground vehicles.

 

Try and do the Overwatch mission and spot the infantry on the hills.....

[SPAS79]

I've managed to increase my luck (greatly) in spotting targets by adjusting the gain, as well as the LVL setting on the TGP.

 

I've found that by setting the gain to 5 or 6, then messing with the level (usually notching it up once or twice), it really helps bring out the targets against the terrain.

 

 

Don't forget guys, while this may be slightly bugged, when the Hawgs are searching IRL, it isn't completely and effortlessly easy.

 

 

Give ED time and hopefully they'll work on it making it a little easier for us. Until then, I'm quite happy using the method described above to find targets.

 

 

As for the drawing fire, I believe it's referred to as "Wild Weasel". One plane flies low and fast hoping to draw tracers while another orbits above looking for source of said tracers. That source typically doesn't maintain a heartbeat for much longer after that.

Yeah fiddling with gain and level works, gain 7-8 and lvl 5-7 day and a couple of clicks lower at night is what does it for me. Still, trees and terrain should not appear whiter (or blacker) than a running tank or a man, especially at night.

 

You can be as good a shot as you want and like this sim as much as you want (as much as I do), but TGP's thermal vision is still bugged...

 

Sent from mobile, please excuse any typos.

[dux]

Isn't there a HD TGP mod. Not sure what it actually does but I remember seeing it on the forums somewhere.