4 Magic's

[flecha78]

FORGIVENESS , TRADUCTOR.ME USE REFER Pylons USED FOR BOMBS .

[flecha78]

[mattebubben]

 

As already stated that is a Mirage 2000-5 armed with micas.

 

And is a later and very much different variant from the mirage 2000C RDI that is modeled for DCS (in this module)

[Custard]

What is it with people linking pictures of different variants of an aircraft thinking they mean anything? It happens in more or less every thread on a upcoming module. Are they incapable of reading even the most basic summary of the planes capabilities?

[mattebubben]

What is it with people linking pictures of different variants of an aircraft thinking they mean anything? It happens in more or less every thread on a upcoming module. Are they incapable of reading even the most basic summary of the planes capabilities?

 

I think its mostly people being ignorant on variants.

 

Thinking that All mirage 2000s are alike etc.

 

And people are also sometimes unfamiliar with the timeframe of different aircraft / weapons and the variants of those airplanes / weapons.

[jojo]

Yep, Mirage 2000 is not just one plane, it's a family of planes.

 

Azrayen made a nice post :thumbup::

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=147288

[flecha78]

the specification is wrong photo , this figure as m2000c

[Azrayen]

Mirage 2000 EGM+ 4 magics

 

Thanks :)

 

Using MAGIC-specific pylons (of course) on underwing internal points. Nice.

 

 

the specification is wrong photo , this figure as m2000c

Yeah, lots of people do that.

Probably because:

- French 2000-5Fs are upgraded Cs (not newly build airframes)

- And that the -5F variant is still a pure fighter, that matches with the "logic" behind the "C" variant name (C = Chasse = Fighter)

Edited April 6, 2016 by Azrayen

[mattebubben]

FORGIVENESS , TRADUCTOR.ME USE REFER Pylons USED FOR BOMBS .

 

I just think the central supports could serve for Magic 2

 

 

My understanding for what the Magic II and Super 530 where never carried on the belly pylons that would later use the Mica is as follows.

 

First my understanding is that both the magic II and the 530 ignite right off the pylon (so they Ignite and launch instantly from the rail without freefalling before ignition)

 

And this causes problems.

 

First it makes the rearmost pylons unusable as they would be obstructed by the pylons in front.

 

And second and probably more important the fact that any missile launched would leave the aircraft pretty much fly right infront of the engine intakes.

 

And if the Exhaust trail of the missile is sucked into the engine intakes that presents a danger to the engine having problems.

 

While the radar guided Mica (that where carried on the belly) was dropped and then ignited so when the missile ignited it was already slightly below the aircraft and the risk for the exhaust trail being sucked into the engine was much lower.

 

The Aim-7 or its variants could probably have worked as it also has the capabillity to ignite in freefall.

 

The Delay between drop and ignition for the Aim-7 or Mic (or most other radar guided missile) is very tiny its just enough time for the missile to separate and drop a few feet to where it is far enough away to safely ignite the engine without a danger of the Rocket Exhaust being pulled into the engine.

Edited April 6, 2016 by mattebubben

[PiedDroit]

Yes, see this the thread on the same topic:

Dassault's philosophy behind the M-2000Cs armament?

Edited April 6, 2016 by PiedDroit

[jaguara5]

Thanks :)

 

Using MAGIC-specific pylons (of course) on underwing internal points. Nice.

 

 

 

If you are interested, in this video you can see haf personel loading magic missiles on the Internal points

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdgZ7K2piRY[/ame]

[mattebubben]

Zeus just made it official.

 

Just a preview of things to come:

 

 

 

 

Yes, we know that the pylons are wrong, but they work

 

 

So The abillity to carry 4 Magic pylons will be coming

(A modification that as discussed earlier was done to the greek mirages)

 

And while im happy for the 4 Magics as it will increase the capabilities of the mirage 2000 especially until the Radar problems that are hampering the effectiveness of the Super-530s have been fixed.

 

Im a bit on the side since if one modification is made that was unique to a Mirage 2000E export customer why not more armament options that were unique to export customers and the mirage 2000E.

 

Like the Armat or a laser Targeting pod (that was was used on the M2000E of some nations)

 

Since if we starting mixing capabilities/armament options of the 2000C and 2000Es where do we draw the line?

 

Sure the 4 magics is a minor modification but its still something that was never done to Mirage 2000Cs and was unique to the 2000E of Greece (dont think any other export customer had that modification done either).

 

So while i like having 4 Magics i would rather have a split of the two variants instead of borrowing things from one and giving it to the other.

 

Having the M2000C with only M2000C correct features etc and a Mirage 2000E with Mirage 2000E correct features.

Edited April 30, 2016 by mattebubben

[mvsgas]

Good point mattebubben, I agree with you. Mixing like that will just add to confusion and before long some one else will want some thing else added.

[Rlaxoxo]

 

Hnnnnnggggg

 

I neeed dis

[jojo]

Yes it's a transgression toward Mirage 2000C RDI.

 

But the weapon is already in use on Mirage 2000C RDI and used for its main mission: Air Defense.

So that one bother me less then laser pod, Exocet or Armat.

 

Don't like it ? Don't use it...

[jojo]

Hnnnnnggggg

 

I neeed dis

 

New cockpit, new weapon system = almost new plane.

[mvsgas]

Don't like it ? Don't use it...

 

:thumbup:

[Chrinik]

Zeus just made it official.

 

 

 

 

So The abillity to carry 4 Magic pylons will be coming

(A modification that as discussed earlier was done to the greek mirages)

 

And while im happy for the 4 Magics as it will increase the capabilities of the mirage 2000 especially until the Radar problems that are hampering the effectiveness of the Super-530s have been fixed.

 

Im a bit on the side since if one modification is made that was unique to a Mirage 2000E export customer why not more armament options that were unique to export customers and the mirage 2000E.

 

Like the Armat or a laser Targeting pod (that was was used on the M2000E of some nations)

 

Since if we starting mixing capabilities/armament options of the 2000C and 2000Es where do we draw the line?

 

Sure the 4 magics is a minor modification but its still something that was never done to Mirage 2000Cs and was unique to the 2000E of Greece (dont think any other export customer had that modification done either).

 

So while i like having 4 Magics i would rather have a split of the two variants instead of borrowing things from one and giving it to the other.

 

Having the M2000C with only M2000C correct features etc and a Mirage 2000E with Mirage 2000E correct features.

 

Maybe they should just go all out and release a "M-2000 E" variant of their module...Didn´t that use RDM?

[mattebubben]

Maybe they should just go all out and release a "M-2000 E" variant of their module...Didn´t that use RDM?

 

I would be all for having a Mirage 2000C and a Mirage 2000E module.

 

The Difference between them is not huge.

 

Yes the 2000Es did have the RDM radar.

 

It had much worse Look Down/Shoot Down Range then the RDI had but other wise it was a good radar.

 

And From what i can find the symbology etc was identical.

 

The a significant difference with the RDM radar compared to the RDI though would be that it had more and much better Air-Ground modes.

 

The Mirage 2000E was a True Multirole aircraft where as the Mirage 2000E was a More limited Multirole aircraft with a Primary fighter role and a secondary role towards ground attack with unguided weapons.

 

But a Limited 2000E should be rather easy to add by changing the radar performance to fit the RDM radar

(shorter Look down / Shoot down range)

and some minor changes. (one thing could be removing the Refuling probe and Majority of Mirage 2000Es did not have the refuling probe due to customer preference)

 

And more major additions like the Targeting Pod and Air-Ground radar modes could perhaps come later.

 

By having a 2000C and a 2000E we could have one variant aimed more towards Air-Air and the other being a effective Multirole / light striker.

 

But thats a discussion for a different thread =P.

 

Dont get me wrong guys im not mad that they decided to at the Magics in fact its something im thankful for and i will use it since atm the Magic is the most effective weapon of the Mirage 2000 especially in MP.

 

But im just a veru slight Purist and id probably rather have two different variants then one variant with stuff from both.

 

But if this is what we are getting then im happy with it and it will not stop me from 100% enjoying this module and 100% supporting Razbam.

Edited April 30, 2016 by mattebubben

[mattebubben]

Yes it's a transgression toward Mirage 2000C RDI.

 

But the weapon is already in use on Mirage 2000C RDI and used for its main mission: Air Defense.

So that one bother me less then laser pod, Exocet or Armat.

 

Don't like it ? Don't use it...

 

I never said i did not like it i simply stated my thoughts and that i was a bit split on it.

 

And i Simply used the Laser pod / Armat as examples.

 

Though the Armat is probably the most likely one.

 

As some sources states the Mirage 2000 (even the C) was capable of carrying it they just did not because that duty was relegated to other aircraft in the french airforce.

 

But if we no longer have a France Specific Mirage 2000C then there is no longer a clear prohibiting factor to adding it (that i know of) other then no clear documentation on how it would work on the Mirage.

 

Both the Targeting Pod and Exocet as much less likely as they were no plug and play.

 

The Exocet needing a more advanced Air-Ground Radar (to search for ships) and the Targeting Pod needing modifications to the Display and wiring etc for use.

 

So those two are things that would likely not be easy modifications.

 

(the Targeting pod could most likely be done quickly at a "Factory" etc just replacing the old display with one like the ones in the 2000E but the exocet would be more difficult and less likely as it would require modifications to the radar or a new radar all together)

Edited April 30, 2016 by mattebubben

[QuiGon]

I'm totally against mixing variants. They should stick to the C and it's capabilities IMHO.

 

Don't like it ? Don't use it...

That's no problem in SP, but in MP other people will use them. :(

[jojo]

I don't want to be arrogant or disrespectful, but there are some guys around here you don't need to explain the differences between Mirage 2000 variants, and I'm one of them.

 

and changing its loadout slightly by preventing it from using the Super 530D (It was limited to the 530F)

Only French Mirage 2000C/B RDM used Super 530F.

 

Export Mirage 2000E RDM radar were fitted with Continuous Wave Illuminator (CWI), which allows the use of Super 530D missiles. You can check pictures of Indian Mirage 2000H and Greek Mirage 2000EG exhibited with weapons, and compare with Super 530F pictures...

But it doesn't give the RDM radar better look down/ shoot down capacity.

 

For the rest, I agree with you, I would like the Mirage 2000E and even the whole Mirage 2000 family (D/ N/ -5).

 

For the time being, lets just enjoy what we have: a Mirage 2000C RDI, with one slight transgression :smilewink:

[mattebubben]

I don't want to be arrogant or disrespectful, but there are some guys around here you don't need to explain the differences between Mirage 2000 variants, and I'm one of them.

 

 

Only French Mirage 2000C/B RDM used Super 530F.

 

Export Mirage 2000E RDM radar were fitted with Continuous Wave Illuminator (CWI), which allows the use of Super 530D missiles. You can check pictures of Indian Mirage 2000H and Greek Mirage 2000EG exhibited with weapons, and compare with Super 530F pictures...

But it doesn't give the RDM radar better look down/ shoot down capacity.

 

For the rest, I agree with you, I would like the Mirage 2000E and even the whole Mirage 2000 family (D/ N/ -5).

 

For the time being, lets just enjoy what we have: a Mirage 2000C RDI, with one slight transgression :smilewink:

 

I realised my mistake with the 530s and has edited the comment already.

 

And i have never said i will Like this module any less for this modification.

 

This is the only fighter i fly atm and i love every second of it.

 

And i will use the 4 Magic pylons when they come out atleast untill they are able to find a fix to the Radar loosing lock issues.

 

Since Atm in MP 70% of my kills are made with the magic II and 60% of my deaths are due to me trying to regain radar lock to use the 530.

 

As i have already stated i have no major disagreement with the modification since its something is plausible and that any user could have done / Requested easily.

 

(and its also something that should maby have been default from the start for all mirage 2000C/E variants)

 

And this is just a Single mix between variants and the Mig-21 has MANY and i dont think any less of that module because of it.

Edited April 30, 2016 by mattebubben

[Fer_Fer]

I am not too happy about it, however it shouldn't be much of an issue.

just as long as they keep the variant mixing check, i am fine with it