4 Magic's

[Dave317]

I've always been more of a ground attack type and mainly flew the A10c and the Heli's. Since getting this module I thought I would try my hand at air to air and realise I suck at it! I tried the missile combat instant action mission and once into visual range I can just about shoot one enemy down before I am killed. I tried loading up 4 Magic's for close in fighting but I can only load 2. Is this realistic? It seems a bit limiting having only 2 Magic's as the 530's seem a bit of a waste of a hardpoint.

[Azrayen]

Is this realistic?

Absolutely.

[Dave317]

Thought it probably was, shame.

[mattebubben]

I've always been more of a ground attack type and mainly flew the A10c and the Heli's. Since getting this module I thought I would try my hand at air to air and realise I suck at it! I tried the missile combat instant action mission and once into visual range I can just about shoot one enemy down before I am killed. I tried loading up 4 Magic's for close in fighting but I can only load 2. Is this realistic? It seems a bit limiting having only 2 Magic's as the 530's seem a bit of a waste of a hardpoint.

 

They use different types of pylons.

 

The Magic Pylons are not compatible with 530s and the 530 pylons are not compatible with the Magic II.

 

And you cant just put a magic II pylon on the hardpoint made for the 530 pylons.

 

Its very much something Dassault could have done if they wanted do (either with new pylons capable of carrying both types or making the hardpoint capable of carrying either pylon)

 

but as it is you can only have Magics on the outermost pylons and 530s on the pylon inside of that.

 

And when it comes to the 530s.

 

Are you using the missiles that start with Matra.

 

As those are the updated Razbam missiles.

 

And they work very well for me.

 

The only problem atm is on the radar side and not with the missile itself and thats a tendency for the radar to loose track.

 

But for Medium-short ranges the 530 works well.

[Dave317]

Yes, I'm using the Matra missiles. The problem I have is if on a head on fight with the 530's I always lose due to the enemy being able to fire first at a further range. I've taken to dodging the inbound radar guided missiles then getting into a dogfight at close range. Hence my need for 4 Magic's.

[mattebubben]

Yes, I'm using the Matra missiles. The problem I have is if on a head on fight with the 530's I always lose due to the enemy being able to fire first at a further range. I've taken to dodging the inbound radar guided missiles then getting into a dogfight at close range. Hence my need for 4 Magic's.

 

VS a Aim-120 or R-27ER ur outranged.

 

But its comparable to the Aim-7M and R-27R.

 

I fly the M-2000 multiplayer and i do pretty well (Avg 2-3 kills per death)

 

But i tend to avoid Headon attacks against enemies that are going for me.

 

Try flying low and using terrain or attacking enemies already engaged.

 

Since in a head on attack VS a F-15C with Aim-120s or a Su-27 with R-27ERs you will have a disadvantage.

 

But like with any aircraft.

 

You want to play to your strengths and not to your enemies strengths.

 

Use the right tactics and the M-2000 can be a very deadly aircraft and the 530 can be a very deadly weapon.

 

about 65% of my air-air kills in the M-2000 are using the Super 530 (Matra super 530)

 

with 30% being Magic II and 5 % for guns.

 

So the M-2000 and the Super 530 are plenty good as long as they are used correctly and you dont play into the hands of your enemy.

 

And it can only get better with future work on the Radar and RWR.

 

And for close in type fighting the Super 530 can still work well especially for chase shots where the magic might not reach.

 

But in close ranges and together with the Close combat mode it can be dangerous.

 

Just Change to the magic II get a radar lock in close combat change back to Super 530 and fire away.

(as the close combat mode is primarily designed for use with the magic II).

Edited April 4, 2016 by mattebubben

[flecha78]

should be able to put magic 2 in the central pylons , very little air capacity

[jojo]

Since in a head on attack VS a F-15C with Aim-120s or a Su-27 with R-27ERs you will have a disadvantage.

 

I did a test today, 2 Su 27 full load (4 R-27ER, 2 R-27ET, 2 R-73 + ECM) Vs 2 AI M-2000C

 

I'm probably not the best Su 27 pilot, but despite trying to keep the target in look up, my R-27ER were almost useless. I end up in visual with R-27ET.

 

Even at 5.7Nm, the R-27ER get spoofed by chaffs. And M-2000C has plenty of it (112)!

[AussieGhost789]

I did a test today, 2 Su 27 full load (4 R-27ER, 2 R-27ET, 2 R-73 + ECM) Vs 2 AI M-2000C

 

I'm probably not the best Su 27 pilot, but despite trying to keep the target in look up, my R-27ER were almost useless. I end up in visual with R-27ET.

 

Even at 5.7Nm, the R-27ER get spoofed by chaffs. And M-2000C has plenty of it (112)!

 

Were you above the Mirages shooting down? If so, that's why your R-27's were useless.

[jojo]

No, I dived to keep the Mirage above me = look up

 

But it's the same in the M-2000C.

 

So it's a bit sad that BVR is just about chaffs...

[AussieGhost789]

No, I dived to keep the Mirage above me = look up

 

But it's the same in the M-2000C.

 

So it's a bit sad that BVR is just about chaffs...

 

I realise now that you said that in your post... woops.

[Dave317]

What is the idea behind the close combat mode? The magics have their own ir seeker so why do you need radar too?

[mattebubben]

What is the idea behind the close combat mode? The magics have their own ir seeker so why do you need radar too?

 

For finding the target for rangefinding (the radar measures distance/speeds and the computer calculates the proper range to fire)

 

And a very important feature that is yet to be function in the module.

 

The abillity to slave the Seeker head to the radar.

 

As in when you lock up a target with the radar (and you activate the slaving function) the seeker will automaticly slew towards the locked targets.

 

Thus allowing to to get a lock at the target more effectively and at angles other then right infront of you.

 

It very much helps with getting good shots aswell as letting you maneuver instead of needing to keep the target in the boresight crosshair.

 

Just like you would use IR missiles in any of the FC-3 aircraft (F-15 / Su-27 / Mig-29)

 

And that is something that makes the aircraft more effective in a dogfight scenario then if you only have the boresight option (needing to have the enemy exactly infront of the missile seeker for it to lock onto the enemy)

 

 

And the radar (unless you have a IRST to do the same job) is used for all Air-Air weapons most modern fighters use.

 

Be it the Radar guided missile IR guided missiles or the Gun.

 

Since in all cases the Radar will give invaluable information increasing the chance of a kill.

 

And while you can use both IR missiles and the Gun without a radar lock they are significantly more effective with a radar lock then they are without.

Edited April 5, 2016 by mattebubben

[jaguara5]

I have photos from Hellenic Air Force Mirage 2000EGM 's with 4 magics.

[mattebubben]

I have photos from Hellenic Air Force Mirage 2000EGM 's with 4 magics.

 

The Greeks probably asked for that capabillity.

 

(so probably has different pylon or hardpoints to carry Magic capable launch rails on 2 more pylons)

 

Just like Indias Mirages can use R-73s.

 

But the Mirage 2000C is not able to carry Four magics.

 

It could probably be modified to do so with some work but it was never done.

 

And a Main duty for the Mirage 2000C was as a Fighter interceptor protecting french airspace against bombers and long range aircraft.

 

And for that duty the Super 530D was vital.

[ZHeN]

why can't we have MICA ?

 

Edited April 6, 2016 by ZHeN

[mattebubben]

why can't we have MICA ?

 

 

Again its a very different variant of the Mirage 2000.

 

The mirage 2000C is not capable of using the MICA.

 

That would be the Mirage 2000-5 or later.

 

And they have different radars and the cockpits are overhauled (with numerous displays and MFDs).

 

This module is the Mirage 2000C RDI and it is unable to use the MICA.

 

So they cant easily convert this module into a M-2000-5 either because its Cockpit is very much different and also the radar and avionics etc.

 

So maby they could make a M-2000-5 in the future (if they got the permission as the M2000-5 and later Mica capable variants are bound to be more classified then a Mirage 2000C RDI is)

 

as a quick comparison.

 

This is the cockpit of the M-2000-5

 

 

And this is the mirage 2000C cockpit.

 

 

And the ingame Mirage 2000C

 

[ZHeN]

crap :( yeah, 2000-5 is a totally different plane ... :( thought it was a usual 2000C ...

Edited April 6, 2016 by ZHeN

[mattebubben]

crap :( yeah, 2000-5 is a totally different plane ... :( though it was a usual 2000C ...

 

Well if you look carefully at the second picture (Cockpit side)

 

you can even see the Mirage 2000-5 text :smartass:

 

But yea i too would love to have another mirage variant later on but for now the Mirage 2000C RDI is what we have and i LOVE it!.

Edited April 6, 2016 by mattebubben

[jojo]

And a very important feature that is yet to be function in the module.

 

The abillity to slave the Seeker head to the radar.

 

As in when you lock up a target with the radar (and you activate the slaving function) the seeker will automaticly slew towards the locked targets.

 

Thus allowing to to get a lock at the target more effectively and at angles other then right infront of you.

 

It very much helps with getting good shots aswell as letting you maneuver instead of needing to keep the target in the boresight crosshair.

 

Just like you would use IR missiles in any of the FC-3 aircraft (F-15 / Su-27 / Mig-29)

 

And that is something that makes the aircraft more effective in a dogfight scenario then if you only have the boresight option (needing to have the enemy exactly infront of the missile seeker for it to lock onto the enemy)

.

 

+1

 

Seeker slaving is especially useful in vertical scan mode, allowing you to shoot off bore sight, while you can't put a target turning inside your HUD for example.

[ZHeN]

moreover, each time you lock a target with your radar in a dogfight, it shows you TIR indication and if you launch Magic without sound alarm, it won't approach the target at all

[flecha78]

I just think the central supports could serve for Magic 2

[Custard]

I just think the central supports could serve for Magic 2

Yeah but sadly they can't.

[Azrayen]

I have photos from Hellenic Air Force Mirage 2000EGM 's with 4 magics.

Woudl you post it (or a link to it) by any chance? :)

 

I just think the central supports could serve for Magic 2

What are "central supports"? :huh:

[jaguara5]

Mirage 2000 EGM+ 4 magics