3D depth exaggerated?

[some1]

I had a chance of trying the Vive at a friend's house in FSX and DCS for a few hours. One thing I noticed is that the cockpits in DCS seem to be much roomier than how I remember them from real life. I mean the instruments panels look like I would have to stretch my arms to reach them, like they are stretched longitudinally, while in real life I had them just next to my knees.

 

It's not a huge difference, maybe 30% too much. Does anyone have a similar feeling? Is that something that can be tweaked in the DCS config files? Something like stereo separation.

[Vivoune]

Interesting. I was surprised at how small and cosy cockpits are compared to screens where it feels huge and with plenty of room.

 

I'm pretty sure the scale and fidelity are accurate, so that leaves us with the placement or the perception of depth as you say. Could it be simply be because of where your view are? I find most default views in DCS are wrong when in VR and have to be adjusted.

[WindyTX]

The Hawk is definitely too big for sure I reported it as a bug. The Hawk cockpit is really tight compared to an A-10 or F15 but it is the only one that I really noticed the difference from Reality. The rest feel about right. The other question is how you center your head position at the start of the flight it makes quite a difference.

[Bushmanni]

I think IPD affects sense of scale.

[Vivoune]

I think IPD affects sense of scale.

 

Well, as far as I know the eyes will adapt to what's shown to them, the correct IPD will only relieve your eyes and prevent eye strain that they would get from over correcting through a wrong IPD.

[PiedDroit]

Well, as far as I know the eyes will adapt to what's shown to them, the correct IPD will only relieve your eyes and prevent eye strain that they would get from over correcting through a wrong IPD.

Not only.

IPD will affect your sense of scale for sure. I experienced it myself with a friend who made me try his DK2, using FSX and flyinside.

If your IPD is bigger than what the game is calculating (i.e. camera position), every will look much bigger because it will assume your head (and eye separation) is very small compared to what it sees.

If your IPD is smaller than the one calculated in-game, everything looks small and toy-ish because your brain think your head is actually bigger - just like if you're wearing a toy cockpit like a helmet.

[Vivoune]

Not only.

IPD will affect your sense of scale for sure. I experienced it myself with a friend who made me try his DK2, using FSX and flyinside.

If your IPD is bigger than what the game is calculating (i.e. camera position), every will look much bigger because it will assume your head (and eye separation) is very small compared to what it sees.

If your IPD is smaller than the one calculated in-game, everything looks small and toy-ish because your brain think your head is actually bigger - just like if you're wearing a toy cockpit like a helmet.

 

Ah ok. I tried hopping in the Su-25t, changed IPD from 60 to 75 but couldn't see any difference personally (IPD sixty-eight). I did feel my eyes had to work the changes though.

[some1]

How have you adjusted IPD used by the game? This may be it.

 

We've compared the same aircraft (P-51) in FSX and DCS today. The cockpit in DCS almost feels roomy, for example looking at the gunsight it appears to me so far away that I won't be able to reach it unless I lean forward. The cockpit in FSX is properly cramped, just like I remember it from real life. I don't think it's the problem with that particular 3D model, every aircraft in DCS feels like that to me.

[PiedDroit]

Ah ok. I tried hopping in the Su-25t, changed IPD from 60 to 75 but couldn't see any difference personally (IPD sixty-eight). I did feel my eyes had to work the changes though.

Where did you set this value? Was it in DCS?

I didn't have a chance to fly again with DCS with the newer drivers and Rift so I don't know if the camera separation can be changed or not.

 

What's confusing is when people speak about IPD is there can be two different settings, one (optical) is how well the HMD lenses are aligned with your own eyes and the other one (software) is how the game is rendering the two viewports.

First one will impact how comfortable wearing the HMD is (eye strain, focus), the other one will affect your sense of scale.

 

I hope at some point (if it's not the case already) the camera separation will be easily tunable inDCS, allowing people to adjust the scale to their liking.

I don't have the budget to jump in now but I certainly will :D

P.S.: if you're not sure how the setting is affecting your game experience, just try the extreme values, you should definitely see a difference.

Edited May 22, 2016 by PiedDroit

[Vivoune]

I see, thanks for the clarification guys. I was adjusting it on the hardware side of the HTC Vive. I wasn't even aware we could change any IPD software-side in DCS. Where is that option?

[PiedDroit]

I see, thanks for the clarification guys. I was adjusting it on the hardware side of the HTC Vive. I wasn't even aware we could change any IPD software-side in DCS. Where is that option?

As far as I know it's in \DCS World\Config\MonitorSetup\Stereo.lua

There is an "eye_shift" parameter, try changing it.

The sum of those two should be equal to your IPD (IIRC value is in meters, <0 for left eye and >0 for right eye, therefore in your case that should be -0.034 and 0.034).

 

Unfortunately I don't have any VR gear to test that out.

I suggest you try various values here and first, see if that changes anything (I believe it does), second, find the best setting for you.

 

This discussion occured a while ago and some people reported that putting smaller values here (equivalent of making the cockpit feel bigger) made it more comfortable.

[Vivoune]

As far as I know it's in \DCS World\Config\MonitorSetup\Stereo.lua

There is an "eye_shift" parameter, try changing it.

The sum of those two should be equal to your IPD (IIRC value is in meters, <0 for left eye and >0 for right eye, therefore in your case that should be -0.034 and 0.034).

 

Unfortunately I don't have any VR gear to test that out.

I suggest you try various values here and first, see if that changes anything (I believe it does), second, find the best setting for you.

 

This discussion occured a while ago and some people reported that putting smaller values here (equivalent of making the cockpit feel bigger) made it more comfortable.

 

Thank you I'll check that tomorrow and report back if it changes the cockpit scale. I wouldn't want it bigger, only closer to the real thing just like some1. ^^

[hansangb]

I thought that was only for Stereo monitor setup, no?

[PiedDroit]

Thank you I'll check that tomorrow and report back if it changes the cockpit scale. I wouldn't want it bigger, only closer to the real thing just like some1. ^^

Sure, let me know. I was suggesting to use extreme values only to validate the process, after that you can use whathever setting you feel is right ;)

 

I thought that was only for Stereo monitor setup, no?

As far as I know it's for VR setups too, not only stereo monitor (I assume you mean 3D monitor). Best way is to try it.

[Milopapa]

When you adjust your IPD for the Vive through the little knob, that also tells SteamVR the adjusted value. So if the game implements SteamVR properly, the knob automagically sets the right IPD in-game as well.

No need for luas.

[PiedDroit]

When you adjust your IPD for the Vive through the little knob, that also tells SteamVR the adjusted value. So if the game implements SteamVR properly, the knob automagically sets the right IPD in-game as well.

No need for luas.

In an ideal world yes, but is this implemented in DCS at the moment?

[Vivoune]

In an ideal world yes, but is this implemented in DCS at the moment?

 

I don't think so. And as much as I like SteamVR, I'm not launching DCS through Steam.

[SkateZilla]

3d Depth looks Ideal to me, No issues w/ Scale, Everything feels about right.

 

Some of the Cockpits look more spacious than real life experience,

But I honestly believe that's because my body is missing in VR.

 

as for SteamVR. I Avoid it like the plague...

[hansangb]

Sure, let me know. I was suggesting to use extreme values only to validate the process, after that you can use whathever setting you feel is right ;)

 

 

As far as I know it's for VR setups too, not only stereo monitor (I assume you mean 3D monitor). Best way is to try it.

 

Yes, 3D monitors. I'll play around sometime this week (I hope). I haven't had a chance to play around that much with Vive yet, and I still have to setup Rift. I'll decide in the next two weeks and sell one off.

[Shogun0]

Yes, 3D monitors. I'll play around sometime this week (I hope). I haven't had a chance to play around that much with Vive yet, and I still have to setup Rift. I'll decide in the next two weeks and sell one off.

 

Curious to hear your impressions for both HMDs in DCS.

 

This community is unique because we have a very specific use case for VR HMDs.... specifically for flight sims.

 

When I try to ask about Vive vs Rift for flight sims, it is usually met with "yeah yeah flight sims are great and all.. but roomscale!!!!!!!". I don't play many games, just flight sims really. I am not looking for roomscale, I am looking for HMD vs HMD comparison. Which seems to be hard to find.

[some1]

Yeah, roomscale is cool, though hard to say how long the novelty factor will last and if will be usable for "serious" games. If you want some info on both headsets usability in flightsims, you can read this from the guy who added the support for both headsets to FSX: http://forum.flyinside-fsx.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1617

 

Anyway, I tried to turn on the pilot's body in DCS but it didn't make any difference to the perception of scale. I'll try to fiddle with eye_shift parameter when I get the chance to try it again.

Edited May 23, 2016 by some1

[Vivoune]

Curious to hear your impressions for both HMDs in DCS.

 

This community is unique because we have a very specific use case for VR HMDs.... specifically for flight sims.

 

When I try to ask about Vive vs Rift for flight sims, it is usually met with "yeah yeah flight sims are great and all.. but roomscale!!!!!!!". I don't play many games, just flight sims really. I am not looking for roomscale, I am looking for HMD vs HMD comparison. Which seems to be hard to find.

 

 

Roomscale asides.

 

You'll be met with varied opinions. Some prefer the Vive slightly higher FOV while others prefer the Rift's slightly cripser screen. Some prefer the Vive's comfort while others prefer the Rift's rigid strap system. Some prefer the Vive's more contrasted and vivid screen while others prefer the dimmed Rift's brightness.

 

Some say any or all of these HMD's differences are night and day, others say they're so minimal you couldn't tell should you try them a day apart.

 

Personally, all in all, I think most people are nitpicking. For every side by side sim enthusiast's review someone will post you favoring one HMD, you can find someone else preferring the other.

 

The only real advantage currently is the Rift's ATW, but that's software development and I think it's fair to say both sides will evolve rather quickly in that regard over the coming months for better or worse no one knows.

 

Personally I went with the Vive mostly because I despise Oculus's shady policies and console war mentality they're trying to bring in PC and just couldn't bring myself to support that with my hard earned money. I was also interested in Roomscale, I like the idea of doing security checks around aircraft, to name only one possibility within simming.

 

If you don't care about such politics nor roomscale one bit, then I think the Rift is the way to go, simply because it's cheaper for a comparable seated experience.

Edited May 23, 2016 by Vivoune

[Milopapa]

I don't think so. And as much as I like SteamVR, I'm not launching DCS through Steam.

 

Steam != SteamVR.

 

DCS implemented the SteamVR library to render to the Vive.

[hansangb]

Curious to hear your impressions for both HMDs in DCS.

 

This community is unique because we have a very specific use case for VR HMDs.... specifically for flight sims.

 

When I try to ask about Vive vs Rift for flight sims, it is usually met with "yeah yeah flight sims are great and all.. but roomscale!!!!!!!". I don't play many games, just flight sims really. I am not looking for roomscale, I am looking for HMD vs HMD comparison. Which seems to be hard to find.

 

 

Yup, got you. I only really care about DCS. I have Prepar3D as well, but it's really so I could try out "better" VR with DK2. DCS behind the power curve at the time.

 

The one thing that may be a wild card for me is the Vive controller. Vive's hand controller is so well tracked that it may have some use with DCS. For example, I could see the controller "hooking" on to switches to flip them. Move the controller like you would your hand...then click the button on the controller to activate it. Why not do it with a mouse? Because the controller works in 3D space and is *very* natural. Having played with the controller (you can flip it physically in the air, track it in VR, and catch it - it's that good in terms of tracking in real time)

 

So while I was in the "why not give me HMD only so I don't have to pay for the stupid controller that I'll never use" camp, I may be changing my mind! :D

[Vivoune]

Yup, got you. I only really care about DCS. I have Prepar3D as well, but it's really so I could try out "better" VR with DK2. DCS behind the power curve at the time.

 

The one thing that may be a wild card for me is the Vive controller. Vive's hand controller is so well tracked that it may have some use with DCS. For example, I could see the controller "hooking" on to switches to flip them. Move the controller like you would your hand...then click the button on the controller to activate it. Why not do it with a mouse? Because the controller works in 3D space and is *very* natural. Having played with the controller (you can flip it physically in the air, track it in VR, and catch it - it's that good in terms of tracking in real time)

 

So while I was in the "why not give me HMD only so I don't have to pay for the stupid controller that I'll never use" camp, I may be changing my mind! :D

 

Never say never.

 

That's also the reaction from a few flight simmer friends when they came to try it out. I think with the good controller haptic feedback it could serve as a nice and precise hand to switch buttons and switches in the cockpit considering its precision and how natural it is to use them (and how they appear in VR even when not in use for you to pick it up so easily).

 

I still think the best solution will be some kind of gloves, but in the mean time I think it could be the next best thing in VR for cockpit management.

Edited May 23, 2016 by Vivoune