F-14 Cockpit and instrument dimensions

[Elo]

Hey @AusMumbles, nice to hear from you again. For my HSD i used this screen: https://www.ebay.de/itm/185665095498

It fits almost perfectly in LASooners HSD design. Only drawback is that the metal bezel will be visible on the sides, but since the HSD doesnt display anything that close to its rim i just put a black 3D-printed mask over it. Wont be visible once the outer acrylic window is installed.

[Elo]

Oh and by the way, if anyone is interested in making their own RWR, heres the 2.8in display i used for that: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005188217754.html

The one from Flight Sim Pro is awesome of course, but kinda pricy. If you have a laser cutter/engraver and a 3D printer, you can make your own easily enough.

[AusMumbles]

@Elo ya big stud! That looks incredible man. Thanks for the link to the screen, I'll be buying that in a minute. 

@ITR1102 found the link to those screens dude. It's from a company called tailorpixels. Really easy to deal with. Order both the screen and the control board. It took about a week and a half from ordering to delivery

https://tailorpixels.com/product/7-6-inch-lcd-800x800-high-brightness-mipi-with-touch-and-hdmi-option/

@LASooner are you files still up somewhere to download?

I'll post my VDI and HSD models shortly, just cleaning up some little errors in the mounting blocks etc in them atm.

Cheers,

Mumbles

[Gunslinger22]

On 8/25/2024 at 5:12 PM, AusMumbles said:

Heya Peeps,

Got a bit more done today on the right instrument panel housing and frame. 

It's starting to actually look kinda cool. (I know the sticks wrong, yet to order a VKB stick).

Looks like she's coming along nicely mate! 

You should try make your own stick extension, I know that it took my pit to the next level when I was able to do it. How are you thinking of doing the hood and glare shield over the ACM panel? I know for me far too much time when into getting it right. 

[AusMumbles]

Thanks heaps dude.

I've ordered the majority of the stuff to make the laserwing FFB DIY base.

https://www.laserwing.com/miniffb

I'm currently working up a design to allow the roll of the stick to be independent from the pitch like the real jet.

That's gunna take me a hot minute to finish/get right so I've got a VKB Gunfighter IV and F-14 Stick with 200mm extension inbound this week as the 12-18 month intrum solution.

Tbh I have no idea bout how I'm going to tackle the glare shield, best guess 3d print it in 3-4 bits and then glue them together.

Mumbles

Edited August 27, 2024 by AusMumbles

[RustBelt]

Glare shield seems more like a Laser cutter application. 1mil ABS or something.

[Chronocidal]

20 hours ago, RustBelt said:

Glare shield seems more like a Laser cutter application. 1mil ABS or something.

Given the semi-organic shape of it, it might make sense to make a wooden frame, and then cover it with vinyl material like a seat cover.  I think LASooner did print his entirely, and it came out nicely, but it definitely needs to be done in several pieces.

Whole pit is coming together beautifully though, I'll be really interested to see what you come up with for that stick idea.  I've just been using a Virpil CM2 base for the past couple of years with a double extension, but I'm also mostly keeping mine F-18 compatible.

Moving the roll axis up into the handle is going to be a challenge for sure.  Might be able to use a torsion spring along the axis, but I'd be interested to see an actual mechanical diagram of what the stick actually used.  I can't imagine adding any sort of FFB system to that axis will be easy either.

[RustBelt]

The glare shield is pretty thin flimsy plastic. That shape is from it sagging. 
 

I’m also working on a “split” axis stick with a VPForce big motor kit. My build is just copying how the tomcats actual stick, as depicted in the 3d cockpit  file posted in this thread. It’s looking like a bell crank linkage may be the way I go with it. 

[Gunslinger22]

On 8/28/2024 at 9:36 AM, RustBelt said:

Glare shield seems more like a Laser cutter application. 1mil ABS or something.

I made mine out of Zincalume, folded and riveted everything together. 

 

[RustBelt]

Really clad steel? Did you have it free or do you just hate your cutting/bending hand? 
 

looks great by the way!

Edited August 30, 2024 by RustBelt

[Gunslinger22]

On 8/29/2024 at 7:17 AM, RustBelt said:

The glare shield is pretty thin flimsy plastic. That shape is from it sagging. 

Also to note is that it actually has two slight seems that cause the shape of the glare shield to bend up, this is not from it just sagging. 

[ITR1102]

@LASooner Do you still have the ACM switch covers available for download somewhere? My TEK Creations ACM panel just arrived and I went back to order these parts and found that ShapeWays is down and read they are permanently shut down. I believe the files used to be downloadable from ShapeWays but I hadn’t previously downloaded them.

I searched for an internet archive of the site but was unsuccessful.

[BULLITT83]

Hi guys!

 

I'm looking very accuratly all your fantastic jobs, but i can't understand something : nowadays we can find screens almost from the size we wants, TOMCAT have a complex instrument panel divided on separate plans. 

One of the solution is to get one screen for the HSD, one for the VSD, one for the RWR , one for the engine panel ... etc ...   but most of the graphic card have a maximum of 4 HDMI slot.

How do you deal with this ? what is the solution ? from what i read , do you manage to display the fuel quantity for example on a screen via an arduino ? and you display HSD and VSD with helios via 2 hdmi port of your graphic card ?

one of you can makes a drawing of his "instrument panel " display plan ?

 

Best regards

 

Guillaume

[RustBelt]

I think most of them are running VR and use the panel to match up their touch with the in VR view. So it’s just about knobs and buttons. And looking cool. 
 

I’ve herd there’s tricks to make multiple displays behave as one “screen space” but never looked into it personally. 
 

Also once you start getting specific, you can’t get screens in many sizes that aren’t 16:9. Hell 4:3 is hard to come by. 

[ITR1102]

For HSD and VDI displays I’ve used SpaceDesk to run iPads. I haven’t found a solution for all the gauges yet. If they can connect to dcsbios, is the limitation of displays connecting to the gpu even an issue?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[BULLITT83]

Yeah you are right ITR1102 , then the GPU will suffer ..

[RustBelt]

Honestly, if you’re already building a whole panel, make the dials real. Only use screens for screens. DCSBios Arduinos are happy to run gauge stepper motors and LED’s all day. 
 

Also, you don’t need to use the SAME GPU to run the displays. Don’t forget USB-C, they aren’t 3d renders, just symbols so basic USB-C screen/drivercards can manage. Just have to unify the “desktop” then use helios to position things.

[Elo]

On 10/2/2024 at 3:44 PM, BULLITT83 said:

Hi guys!

 

I'm looking very accuratly all your fantastic jobs, but i can't understand something : nowadays we can find screens almost from the size we wants, TOMCAT have a complex instrument panel divided on separate plans. 

One of the solution is to get one screen for the HSD, one for the VSD, one for the RWR , one for the engine panel ... etc ...   but most of the graphic card have a maximum of 4 HDMI slot.

How do you deal with this ? what is the solution ? from what i read , do you manage to display the fuel quantity for example on a screen via an arduino ? and you display HSD and VSD with helios via 2 hdmi port of your graphic card ?

one of you can makes a drawing of his "instrument panel " display plan ?

 

Best regards

 

Guillaume

@BULLITT83 Im on board with Rustbelt, my plan is to make every Gauge a real one, and only simulate screens. For the F-14Bs front cockpit, there are effectively 4 screens:
-VDI
-HSD
-RWR
-EIG
The F-14A has analouge "ribbon" engine gauges (like this C-141 gauge i managed to procure), so you could build that with steppers/servos and have VDI, HSD and RWR as screens with one left for the main display.

The way i do it at the moment with my 5 screen desk setup and plan to do it with the pit is using a cheap USB-to-HDMI "converter", which are really just small GPUs, again as Rustbelt mentioned. They come with a performance hit, i noticed about ~10FPS lost with mine. Not great, not terrible. You could also experiment with a proper multi-GPU setup, but i dont know how well DCS will handle that (with something like a GT1030 or RX550 in addition to your primary GPU).

Oh and by the way @RustBelt while im sure Helios makes it easier, you can also use the native DCS multiscreen function with the corresponding .lua files.

Edited October 4, 2024 by Elo

[RustBelt]

9 hours ago, Elo said:

@BULLITT83 Im on board with Rustbelt, my plan is to make every Gauge a real one, and only simulate screens. For the F-14Bs front cockpit, there are effectively 4 screens:
-VDI
-HSD
-RWR
-EIG
The F-14A has analouge "ribbon" engine gauges (like this C-141 gauge i managed to procure), so you could build that with steppers/servos and have VDI, HSD and RWR as screens with one left for the main display.

The way i do it at the moment with my 5 screen desk setup and plan to do it with the pit is using a cheap USB-to-HDMI "converter", which are really just small GPUs, again as Rustbelt mentioned. They come with a performance hit, i noticed about ~10FPS lost with mine. Not great, not terrible. You could also experiment with a proper multi-GPU setup, but i dont know how well DCS will handle that (with something like a GT1030 or RX550 in addition to your primary GPU).

Oh and by the way @RustBelt while im sure Helios makes it easier, you can also use the native DCS multiscreen function with the corresponding .lua files.

 

I’m dumb. I need Drag and drop WYSIWYG. Numburz R Hard. 

[AusMumbles]

Quick progress update,

VDI and HSD prototypes pretty much work. (Minor refinements in pot hole sizing, mounting etc) to come.

Intrum VKB stick is in as well. 

Has anyone from the cockpit building community managed to make a ribbon guage yet? Same same with the fuel guages odo style counter. I'm a bit stumped on how to effectively achieve it at the moment

[RustBelt]

Build it as an actual odometer. Take the fuel flow and have it control the rotation of the lowest digit (100s I think) 

Use the barrel position as a feed BACK not forward so the duino knows what number is displayed. Check how electromechanical pinball machines do it on their score dials to get an idea. But build in a tripmeter reset function so you always start with a definitive 0s state the duino can then roll up from. 
 

the tapes are just a dial but driving a reel not a needle. Spring on the “low” end reel (like a flexible retracting tape measure) air core motor on the “High” end. Keep it in tension and always ready to wind back up when the “Needle” goes counter-clockwise. For this take advantage of depth and put the motor in the back.

side view:

face |>• motor

Edited October 8, 2024 by RustBelt

[Nightdare]

On 10/7/2024 at 8:14 AM, AusMumbles said:

Has anyone from the cockpit building community managed to make a ribbon guage yet?

I would think motorized faders could function as mechanical indicators, though the bulky motors (for something narrow like the fuel flow meter even small motors are pretty voluminous) would probably need some creative placement/design

[BULLITT83]

@Elo and @RustBelt  thanks a lot guys for your answer and explanation, i really appreciate, i've never build any analog gauge and have it drived buy and arduino; in my older version of the pit i use the arduino only for some light or display radio frequencies; you are right, i should try.

 

in my previous version i use one big screen to simulate all gauges with helios.

 

Just 2 new question following your thread :

 

Did stepper motor gauge fast enough ? i mean to be accurate while piloting, no "delay " , i.e if i want to stabilize at 10000 ft, will the gauge indicate as fast as on the screen ? i'm sure not, but did you notice some delay ?noticeable ?

 

And another one, the thing about USB C and HDMI display... i don't know this ... what is that ? you can plug a screen with and USB C interface on the PC and have some basic display ? not using the graphic card ?

these kind of adapter ? https://www.amazon.fr/BENFEI-Adaptateur-convertisseur-projecteur-Aluminium/dp/B09KXZFS5Z/ref=asc_df_B09KXZFS5Z/?tag=googshopfr-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=701567717703&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=17423419166672598934&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9056352&hvtargid=pla-1599437314985&psc=1&mcid=33d9d9b3eac63115aeb1b83f53c178d6&gad_source=1

Sorry for my "basic questions"

 

Best regards

Edited October 10, 2024 by BULLITT83

[RustBelt]

You want an “air core” motor like they use in car speedometers and tachometers. Or a high speed RC plane servos (not the fancy modern digital ones) which arduinos also love working with and have tons of libraries for, but are pricier and the package is a bit more awkward. Closed Feedback always beats stepper for response. Either integral, or little hall sensors in the mechanism to tell the Arduino where it’s pointed.

 

Also similar yes, but there’s more integration with direct USB-C not USB-A 3.0. The C ports typically are better jacked into the buss. Either as a PCIe card or on the motherboard pin out. Meaning more bandwidth and the ability to daisy-chain more monitors before running out of bandwidth.   

my best advice is take a deep dive into the warthog project’s youtube channel. The Warthog Project

 

His methods and execution are excellent. 

Edited October 10, 2024 by RustBelt

[RustBelt]

Also I’d say, the ones to most consider using a screen on is the Standby attitude indicator, Altimeter, and the RMI (they call it something different)  anything that goes beyond one full rotation is a lot deeper mechanical work. Doable, but less reliable.