future functionalities in M2000C

[mattebubben]

The F-15C radar (in the game) is capable to intercept almost any flying target up to 80nm without any issue, it also provides you the correct heading of the target even if it's jamming, it can also hole the enemy ECM with ease by spamming the TDS up to 20nm, while the M2000C has a fake "jumping target" that drives you crazy to run after it with the target designator...

 

Its extremely easy to tell the fake targets from the real once.

 

Below the target indicator (the Chevron)

 

You have the Merge Velocity in Mach numbers.

 

But you only get the Velocity indication below real targets.

 

So numbers below the Chevron = real target

and no numbers = fake target.

 

And alot of the Advantages the F-15 and the other FC-3 fighters have over the Mirage 2000 are because they alot more simplified in their modeling.

 

The Fake Targets are one example of that

(IRL all the FC-3 fighters will show fake targets depending on the jammer type but they have chosen not to impliment the fake targets for the FC-3 fighters)

 

The Mirage 2000 is a great fighter and you can do very well in it.

 

All you have to do is adapt your flying to the Mirage.

 

You cant fly the Mirage like you would a F-15 or a Su-27 because they are very different fighters.

 

If you fly the Mirage correctly you can tangle with any fighter in this game and be confident of victory.

Edited June 7, 2016 by mattebubben

[Gliptal]

Either way, I still think the M-2000C shouldn't be made less realistic just to cater to the low system fidelity of the FC3 aircrafts.

[mattebubben]

Yea the Mirage 2000 should not be simplified just for balance.

 

Especially since more and more fully modeled aircraft are starting to enter service now.

 

If anything the FC-3 fighters should be updated to make things like Radar and RWR more realistic + more fully modeled (and not as simplified as they are today)

[QuiGon]

The F-15C radar (in the game) is capable to intercept almost any flying target up to 80nm without any issue, it also provides you the correct heading of the target even if it's jamming, it can also hole the enemy ECM with ease by spamming the TDS up to 20nm, while the M2000C has a fake "jumping target" that drives you crazy to run after it with the target designator... those time which is capable of keeping something, because in many occasions I had the target in visual range and it wasn't even shown on the radar despite the fact that I had the cone pointed directly in front of me.

As mattebubben already said, the fake targets are no issue, because you can tell them apart easily. The Mirage radar also tells you the heading of a jamming target. The radar had some issues (loosing lock easily, not showing certain targets) but they have been fixed in the last update. It's pretty reliable now.

 

I don't need to follow you, you'll be death before you can do anything really... I'll shot you from the high without you even realize from where the missile come from.

You do? I get the impression you mistake the M2000 for a MiG-21. In the M2000 I have a capable radar that can detect you way before you're in missile range and a RWR that warns me if you attempt to do that. Besides that, you need to find me before you're too close. While that might be no issue in open terrain, the Mirage is pretty deadly in mountainous terrain, because of it's awesome turn rate which is especially helpful in narrow valleys. It also has close combat modes like the F-15.

 

Also the AIM-7 does crazy thing: I can shot at you while following at 90°, literally at your side, and the missile will hit you doing crazy things at high G's... while your Magic will go straight under the same conditions.

Why compare a medium range SARH missile to a short range IR missile? I have the S530 to counter that.

 

Yes, you need to play on nerfed servers to artificially increase your chances.. and neither this is enough to compete at pair. The only way to get fun is to play on a Mirage only server... that doesn't exists.

The Mirage we have in DCS is the original variant from the 80s, with 80s armament. Of course it is inferior against more recent weapons like the AMRAAM that is used today, but the Mirage is also using different weapons today IRL (MICA) which we don't have in DCS. So an 80s scenario, like the current BlueFlag, solves that by putting them at equal terms (80s F-15 against 80s Mirage instead of 90s/2000s F-15 against 80s Mirage).

 

I'm saying this to not give false hopes to those users who believes to fight at pair with the others, you are NOT... you can get fun as well, but you must know that you're starting with a huge disadvantage. This is the reality.

This is not reality, this is a game, since in reality there is MICA today or was no AIM-120 back in the 80s where the DCS Mirage is from.

 

 

To get back to the origin of this discussion: The Mirage is of the same generation (4th gen) as the F-15 no matter what. What we are talking about is mainly the armament which changes over time (AIM7 for 80s F-15 -> AIM-120 for todays F-15 and S530 for 80s M2000 -> MICA for todays M2000)

 

-------------------------------------

 

Either way, I still think the M-2000C shouldn't be made less realistic just to cater to the low system fidelity of the FC3 aircrafts.

 

Yes, that would just be stupid. :thumbup:

Edited June 7, 2016 by QuiGon

[flecha78]

radar should be modified to accept the mica , changing variant does not bother me at all

[QuiGon]

radar should be modified to accept the mica , changing variant does not bother me at all

 

Pls don't. We have the Mirage 2000 which can't use MICA. We would need the Mirage 2000-5 for that.

[npole]

Its extremely easy to tell the fake targets from the real once.

 

I know, but it doesn't always works.. it is also a bug (when it works), otherwise there wouldn't be any sense to fill the radar with the fake ones if you clearly know which on is the real one. :)

 

And alot of the Advantages the F-15 and the other FC-3 fighters have over the Mirage 2000 are because they alot more simplified in their modeling.

 

I already mentioned this in my previous posts. In fact I'm not questioning the Mirage realism, I am talking exclusively of its performance online in a server full of much more capable planes (not more realistic.. just better).

 

That's to reply to the op, who's expecting the Mirage to perform better, it will not.. this is the Mirage, we will have a realistic representation of the aircraft, but it will never compete with the FC3 fighters online.

 

If you fly the Mirage correctly you can tangle with any fighter in this game and be confident of victory.

 

No you can't... You will die in any circumstances at pair skill pilot, because while you fly your Mirage in the right way, the Su27 pilot will fly his Su27 in the correct way as well.

You will only kill the noob bandits.. but you can kill em with an A10 as well, if they are noob enough and you're skilled enough. ;)

[flecha78]

2000m is basically a m2000c , but can shoot 30 and Martel AS-

[AOG]

The M2000 is best in the merge. The 530s and magics are useable if you know what your doing. The biggest disadvantage is that the platform only carries 4 missiles. You have to fight the M2000 differently than a FC3 aircraft. You must become an ambush preditor because you are more resource limited. In PVP I usually leave my radar in standby until I'm ready to attack. I like to stay low and behind terrain as much as possible. I swing out wide and try to get behind and below them. At the last second I wil use attack with magics from below without ever turning on the radar. If you try to fly it like an f-15 you will get eaten alive. If you play to its strengths the M2000 can be surprisingly effective.

 

AOG

[Gliptal]

Which, ironically, is not how the M-2000C is supposed to be employed IRL. At least as far as I know. :D

[npole]

You do? I get the impression you mistake the M2000 for a MiG-21. In the M2000 I have a capable radar that can detect you way before you're in missile range and a RWR that warns me if you attempt to do that. Besides that, you need to find me before you're too close. While that might be no issue in open terrain, the Mirage is pretty deadly in mountainous terrain, because of it's awesome turn rate which is especially helpful in narrow valleys. It also has close combat modes like the F-15.

 

The issues I may have to find you, are the same issue you may have to find me. Also what you do when you're close? I will still shot at you from up with missiles that are capable of following the target doing crazy things.

I'm not sure if you ever analyzed a dogfight with the TacView, looking at the trajectory of the AIM9 or the 7M... now compare it with your Magic, and tell me the difference.

Or did you even see the out of physics maneuvers of a Su27? It has better turning angle than a Mirage, like it's not suffering any structural stress.

We want to talk about the payload also? ..how many times you died because your two Magics went for their own path and you left with nothing? :)

Again, this is not about the pilot skills (assuming a pair skill)... but about the inferior plane in every condition.

 

Why compare a medium range SARH missile to a short range IR missile? I have the S530 to counter that.

 

I really meant the AIM9's...

 

The Mirage we have in DCS is the original variant from the 80s, with 80s armament. Of course it is inferior against more recent weapons like the AMRAAM that is used today, but the Mirage is also using different weapons today IRL (MICA) which we don't have in DCS. So an 80s scenario, like the current BlueFlag, solves that by putting them at equal terms (80s F-15 against 80s Mirage instead of 90s/2000s F-15 against 80s Mirage).

 

 

This is not reality, this is a game, since in reality there is MICA today or was no AIM-120 back in the 80s where the DCS Mirage is from.

 

 

To get back to the origin of this discussion: The Mirage is of the same generation (4th gen) as the F-15 no matter what. What we are talking about is mainly the armament which changes over time (AIM7 for 80s F-15 -> AIM-120 for todays F-15 and S530 for 80s M2000 -> MICA for todays M2000)

 

-------------------------------------

 

 

 

Yes, that would just be stupid. :thumbup:

 

Again, I'm not questioning the realism... I'm replying to the question: may I compete online? And the answer is only one: nope, unless you modify the payload of the other superior planes (it will make the things better, but neither on pair)... or if you find a Mirage only (or inferior) server.

 

Not sure why people believes that it can do miracle... IT STILL FUN, but you're not gonna challenge the guys with the F-15C and the Su27, and this normal, I'm not saying I would like to see a better Mirage 2000C, instead I'm saying that those FC3 fighters and their weapons should be fixed... because a missle hitting you doing a 90° turn while launched while pulling many G's is unrealistic.. but you will die anyway. :)

[QuiGon]

So, we are talking WVR now. While in BVR there is a clear advantage for the F-15 (AIM-120) or at least a slight advantage (AIM-7) over the M2000 it is on par in WVR. There might be some weird problems with the missile behaviour of the AIM-9, but you need to aquire the target first before you can shoot and this is where the M2000 dominates. Like I said it can outturn any other current aircraft in DCS, so it usally won't be targeted by enemy aircraft after the merge in the first place. At least that's my experience fighting against SU-27s and MiG-29s.

[npole]

So, we are talking WVR now. While in BVR there is a clear advantage for the F-15 (AIM-120) or at least a slight advantage (AIM-7) over the M2000 it is on par in WVR. There might be some weird problems with the missile behaviour of the AIM-9, but you need to aquire the target first before you can shoot and this is where the M2000 dominates. Like I said it can outturn any other current aircraft in DCS, so it usally won't be targeted by enemy aircraft after the merge in the first place. At least that's my experience fighting against SU-27s and MiG-29s.

 

I'm talking overall.. normally if you go on the 104th (the server I play more), this is what happen to the Mirage (I fly it as well sometime, but looking at the Tac View, it's how the things rolling for anyone else):

 

If you aren't smart you go h2h with the FC3 fighters.. and you're dead with zero chances.

Let's say the Mirage is a good one, and he tries to get cover using the environment (it's not always possible, it really depends by the Mission if it's around a hill/mountain zone), the F15 radar is capable of keeping the radar track from further, and it can hole the Mirage ECM easily, so even before the Mirage get tucked inside the mountains the F15 has a better awareness of the battlefield.

Hoping to be at the six of a pilot that has your same skill is just that.. an hope.. you can't say, I will just wait in the mountain with the radar OFF... assuming that your opponent doesn't know what you're trying to do.

But there's another issue... even in the short range: the dogfight radar modes of the F15 can trace the targets with a larger cone (and faster) than the one provided by the Mirage (including all the 3 modes), and it's true also for the AIM9 head (if compared with the Magic), hopefully the things will be a little better when you can slave the Magic to the radar.

Let's talk about the G limit to have an authorization to launch, the thing in the Mirage is so limited if compared with the F15 and the Su27.

Let's talk about the weapons effectiveness.. as I said the AIM9 and the AIM7 can cover a larger angle and hit the target while shooting at almost 3 or 9 o'clock, the Magic and the 530D are flying bus if compared with them (they give up if the target does a tight turn and they have not enough separation to follow).

 

So yes, if you manage to know where the enemy is while inside the mountains, if you manage to be behind him and close enough without he even knows, if you aren't pulling too many G's, if the target won't get lost while in STT (yes it happens..), if you have still a weapons left of those pathetic 4 missiles.. you will manage to have your kill. Now tell me how many times this is gonna happen to you, assuming you are confronting an equally skilled opponent? 1 times over 10? ... that's why all the Mirages on the 104th has a poor (to use an euphemism) K/D ratio ... and much of those kills are lucky shot made to targets already hit or to those ones engaged by others already.

 

Yes it's possible to manage to do "something".. but you can't say a Mirage has any strength point against the FC3 fighters... because it doesn't have any, unless all the Mirage owners out there are noob.. coz the top scores are all occupied by the F15C and the Su27.

[blast]

thanks everyone for all your answers! When I posted this thread, I didn't imagine there were so much people really active on this forum and really well informed about the mirage 2000 mod. It's really appreciated.

 

I read all your answers then let me do a sum-up about what I read until here:

 

1. We still don't know when the final version of the M2000 will be released

 

2. If I want to know when next upgrades comes out, I should follow the "upgrades and fixes" thread here on the forum. Honestly, we should ask the developpers to desactivates coments on this thread ("upgrades and fixes") in order to avoid "spam" coments every day. At least people could create a new thread if they want to ask informations about updates.

 

3. I'm not sure if I understood because we have differents answers, but the infrared detector missile is not implemented. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

4. The auto-countermeasures for chaff and flares are still not implemented.

 

5. The LL switch is for activating the coutermeasure, but as explain on n°4 it doesnt work in automatic yet.

 

6. When INS finished, we will be able to add and edit waypoint inside the cockpit to localize ground targets with a margin error of 30 meters.

 

7. The INS won't be able to guide GBU12 to it's ground target especially because of the margin error mentionned above.

 

Finally, the mirage 2000 pros and cons :

Pros:

- Its a good looking plane (my opinion)

- It is modelised realistically

- It has a good turn rate

- its very stable thanks to the FBW system

- It is fast (mach 2.2 at maximum speed)

- It can operate both air-air and air-ground missions

 

Cons:

- It doesn't have fox 3 missiles (medium range missile radar shot and forget). It would be interesting to have MICA missiles to balance the fights against AIM120.

 

- Magic II and Super 530 missiles are not as efficient as its equivalent opponent (AIM, R27)

 

- It can't be competitive against others modern fighters for the reasons explained above

 

- If we want to drop guided bombs (GBU12) during a multiplayer session, the mirage is completely dependent to others pilot who can (and want) lase the target for you. And JTAC for lasing target doesn't exist on multiplayer session (if it does, thank you to provide the server name and evidence).

 

- The INS won't be able to guide GBU12 to its target. (I was hopping we could enter the coordinates of the target inside the INS and drop the bomb easily on it).

 

- It's an expensive mod (59€) for a beta version and compared to the others flaming cliff planes.

 

Conclusion: In it's actual state, Mirage 2000c is a mod which is average in air-air combat, not very good either for air-ground attack.

Since F15 and SU27 have both weapons they are not suppose to have in reality, it must be fair if we would have in the future development of the mirage 2000c MICA missiles (shot and forget fox3 missile) and precise guiding bombs with the INS. If some players think its not realistic, they would have the choice to not use these features.

Edited June 7, 2016 by blast

[PiedDroit]

2.This thread is great for back a forth with devs! Good discussion happen here too.

Specific issues have their thread created already.

Also, first page is updated with changelogs.

So, just just follow the flow and come surfin' with us bro :)

[TomCatMucDe]

Npole, i think you just didnt learn the Mirage or you just prefer gamy FC3 planes with their magic radars.

Regarding the The 27ER has the advantage of the range, and the AMRAM has the range and pitbull advantage. Head to head, its true that there is no chance.

However with AIM7 and 27R, they are all on par. The Aim7 are easy to defeat and you dont have beam that hard. Shoot and crank, i do that often on Blue Flag against F15 and i often defeat the Aim7 and can git kills with 530D, simply because the F15 are spoiled and used by 120C.

The Aim7 has ONLY a slight range advantage over the 530D, but its insignificant cause long shots are easy to defeat and you have plenty of time to shoot as well and crank.

 

Just spend more time learning the Mirage, you wont be better than arcade FC3, but you will be competitive...

[mattebubben]

I know, but it doesn't always works.. it is also a bug (when it works), otherwise there wouldn't be any sense to fill the radar with the fake ones if you clearly know which on is the real one. :)

 

 

Its no bug...

 

The way you can tell the targets are the reason that Any aircraft you detect on the radar is moving.

 

So it has a Velocity in relation to you.

 

But the Fake Jamming contacts dont have a velocity as they are not there and they cant be (atleast not the generation of jammers that are present in game)

programmed to look like they have a velocity.

 

So its not a bug.

 

Its how they would show up in real life.

 

No you can't... You will die in any circumstances at pair skill pilot, because while you fly your Mirage in the right way, the Su27 pilot will fly his Su27 in the correct way as well.

You will only kill the noob bandits.. but you can kill em with an A10 as well, if they are noob enough and you're skilled enough.

 

...

 

I regularly pull 2-1 and 3-1 KDs on mp (On the 104th server so no weapon limitations etc)

 

So no i wont die in any circumstances...

 

If the enemy is smart and stays very high and avoids closing with me he can have me at a disadvantage.

 

But those doing that will usually dont see me if im flying very low and close to terrain so i can simply get outside their radar scan areas and then sneak up on them.

 

I find Su-27s to not be a really large danger as they tend to want to close (as thats what they are used to doing)

and when they close i can usually turn the fight to my favor.

 

And most F-15 pilots will also push as they are usually very confident with their Aim-120s

Again i will have them chase me i will avoid the Aim-120s and i will then turn around and engage them when the advantage is mine.

 

The only opponents i have a hard time killing are those that are very careful and keep lobbing Aim-120s at long range.

 

What happends with those players is we usually go back and forwards (them launching me going evasive and me re-engaging once i have evaded the missile)

until they run out of Aim-120s.

 

And which point they either go home (leaving both of us alive) or they push and at which point i have the advantage.

 

So if you play smart you can counter any enemy.

 

If i fly at high altitude its harder but thats mostly because im not a pro at evading missiles in open skies but rely on terrain / low level flying for doing so.

 

Im not a great pilot (probably avg)

 

So if i can do well in the Mirage 2000 most people should be able to do the same.

[npole]

Just spend more time learning the Mirage, you wont be better than arcade FC3, but you will be competitive...

 

I use them all, including the A10C, that was my first purchase years ago.

That's not the point.. I wasn't talking about sim/arcade differences, but about the enormous advantage the FC3 fighters have online.

It's not about me, come on the 104th and read the K/D ration of this planes: F-15C, Su27, M2000C ... and let me know the differences, you must be lucky to find a Mirage in the first 10 positions.. All the pilots out there are noobs? Nope, it's the plane... ;)

[npole]

Its no bug...

 

If it's not a bug, then press the magic button and eliminates all the "fake" targets automagically... :)

 

I regularly pull 2-1 and 3-1 KDs on mp (On the 104th server so no weapon limitations etc)

 

You must be so lucky to find only noobs on the server.. I just finished to play, the only Mirage on the server has been our (ded) pet for 2 hours and half... I'm surprised he resisted so long before quitting. :)

 

So if i can do well in the Mirage 2000 most people should be able to do the same.

 

I'm not saying you can't have a kill in the Mirage... if you find the newcomer you will have your nice dogfight, but you must compare pilot with the same skill: if your doing good in the Mirage, with the same skill you do 10 times better in the FC3 fighters.

 

I have never been killed by a Mirage on the 104th... NEVER.. I can't say the opposite, while I was piloting it... again, watch the score to statistically see how much good the FC3 fighters are if compared with the Mirage.

And I wanna highlight again: I'm not talking about the realism, neither I'm asking the Mirage to be tuned, it's just how it goes.

[Azrayen]

It would be interesting to have MICA missiles to balance the fights against AIM120.

Balance is not what is wanted with DCS-level modules. Accuracy is. So no MICA.

 

Magic II and Super 530 missiles are not as efficient as its equivalent opponent (AIM, R27)

I disagree. They are more or less comparable. Some pro & cons, as always.

 

- The INS won't be able to guide GBU12 to its target. (I was hopping we could enter the coordinates of the target inside the INS and drop the bomb easily on it).

That would require a GBU-38, not a GBU-12. And a GBU-38 has not been tested with the M-2000C + it would need a GPS fix from the aircraft before release... and the M-2000C has no GPS.

 

- It's an expensive mod (59€) for a beta version

The price is for the module; it happens it's still in beta, but you won't pay more to get the full version.

 

and compared to the others flaming cliff planes.

Yes; and it's normal/intended (given the history and the modelization).

 

Since F15 and SU27 have both weapons they are not suppose to have in reality,

No they haven't.

So:

 

it must be fair if we would have in the future development of the mirage 2000c MICA missiles (shot and forget fox3 missile) and precise guiding bombs with the INS. If some players think its not realistic, they would have the choice to not use these features.

No it wouldn't.

And again "fairness" is not the goal.

 

++

Az'

[The Legman]

Nope, it's the plane... ;)

 

No. It is the server.

 

You are mixing up an A vs B of fighters putting together planes of all ages and types. It is not a surprise that fighters with better systems and weapons outgun you.

 

What i don't like is that FC3 modules are mixed with study sim modules on servers but we will have to deal with it until we have a good bunch of study sims to make servers enjoyable.

 

Until then, just ninja and take the chance of getting them by surprise or so. You will never win a spamraamer in BV.

 

You should be the falcon, but here there are bigger birds, so hug the trees and ambush.

 

Or go to servers with loadouts of the 80s, or other alternatives.

 

Soon we will have the F5E, maybe the Viggen too, they will mix up together better.

 

But it doesn't make any sense to try to find artificial balance if you want to be realistic. There is no balance in the real world. Planes were designed to be better than their counterparts or the previous generation. Missiles too.

[nomdeplume]

6. When INS finished, we will be able to add and edit waypoint inside the cockpit to localize ground targets with a margin error of 30 meters.

The error 30 metre error margin (should be ±15m) is for the precision of the coordinates entry into the system. The actual "waypoint position rendered in the HUD" margin of error will be impacted by the INS drift, which is said to be up to 1 nautical mile per hour of flight. So in normal use, the waypoint will be in the right neighbourhood, but not such that you can just attack the waypoint and expect to hit your target.

 

7. The INS won't be able to guide GBU12 to it's ground target especially because of the margin error mentioned above.

Azrayen touched on this, but I thought it might be helpful to explicitly explain: the GBU-12 is a laser-guided bomb. Without a laser reflection to home in on, it's no more accurate than a Mk-82 iron bomb. The M-2000C lacks a laser designator so is unable to provide that guidance. This is why you need a third-party to lase the target.

 

Even if the M-2000C's Inertial Navigation System (INS) was accurate enough to provide a very accurate fix of the aircraft's position (which it isn't), it still wouldn't be able to put a freefall bomb close enough to a target to be useful from mid- or high altitude, due to the things that can't reasonably be calculated by the ballistics computer: varying winds, pylon misalignment, imperfect pilots not achieving the precisely required release attitude, etc.

[QuiGon]

Just want to explain some of Azrayens shorter answers:

 

- The INS won't be able to guide GBU12 to its target. (I was hopping we could enter the coordinates of the target inside the INS and drop the bomb easily on it).

That would require a GBU-38, not a GBU-12. And a GBU-38 has not been tested with the M-2000C + it would need a GPS fix from the aircraft before release... and the M-2000C has no GPS.

The GBU-12 is a laser-guided bomb, so it has nothing to with the INS, while the GBU-38 is an INS-guided bomb. What you meant blast, is that the INS isn't able to provide a SPI (sensor point of interest) that can be used as a CCRP-reference like in the A-10C. Guidance would still happen by laser and not the INS.

 

 

Since F15 and SU27 have both weapons they are not suppose to have in reality,

No they haven't.

All their weapons in DCS are indeed available to them in reality too. You might got confused by what I said earlier about active radar missile like the AIM-120. I said they weren't available in the 80s, but what we have in DCS are more recent versions of the F-15 and Su-27 which do have them. Just our DCS Mirage is an 80s version that does not has modern active missiles like MICA. So nothing wrong here.

 

 

- If we want to drop guided bombs (GBU12) during a multiplayer session, the mirage is completely dependent to others pilot who can (and want) lase the target for you. And JTAC for lasing target doesn't exist on multiplayer session (if it does, thank you to provide the server name and evidence).

There actually are servers that are running missions with JTACS. They can also be played by players that are owning the CA module.

 

 

And something general: The M2000 is not a mod. It is an official DLC/module for DCS. Saying it is just a mod might be a bit insulting given all the hard work RAZBAM put in this module ;)

Edited June 8, 2016 by QuiGon

[mattebubben]

If it's not a bug, then press the magic button and eliminates all the "fake" targets automagically... :)

 

 

 

You must be so lucky to find only noobs on the server.. I just finished to play, the only Mirage on the server has been our (ded) pet for 2 hours and half... I'm surprised he resisted so long before quitting. :)

 

 

 

I'm not saying you can't have a kill in the Mirage... if you find the newcomer you will have your nice dogfight, but you must compare pilot with the same skill: if your doing good in the Mirage, with the same skill you do 10 times better in the FC3 fighters.

 

I have never been killed by a Mirage on the 104th... NEVER.. I can't say the opposite, while I was piloting it... again, watch the score to statistically see how much good the FC3 fighters are if compared with the Mirage.

And I wanna highlight again: I'm not talking about the realism, neither I'm asking the Mirage to be tuned, it's just how it goes.

 

I actually do better with the Mirage 2000 then i do with the Other FC-3 fighters.

 

Its mostly because the mirage 2000 suits my play style and as such i do better with it.

 

The mirage 2000 is not a bad aircraft but there might be alot of players who dont understand it / use it to its full potential.

 

And also I kinda like your logic...

 

Noobs in Mirage 2000 = Obviously Bad Aircraft.

Noobs in FC-3 Fighters = Obviously Bad pilots...

 

So any time a FC-3 fighter does poorly its because of the pilot and any time the Mirage 2000 does poorly its because of the Aircraft...

 

Its pretty obvious your opinion on this matter is already fixed and no matter of differing experiences seem to have an effect on your views

so i see no reason to keep trying to convince you as its obvious you have made up your mind.

Edited June 8, 2016 by mattebubben

[CrashO]

You must be so lucky to find only noobs on the server.. I just finished to play, the only Mirage on the server has been our (ded) pet for 2 hours and half... I'm surprised he resisted so long before quitting. :)

 

I'm not saying you can't have a kill in the Mirage... if you find the newcomer you will have your nice dogfight, but you must compare pilot with the same skill: if your doing good in the Mirage, with the same skill you do 10 times better in the FC3 fighters.

 

I have never been killed by a Mirage on the 104th... NEVER.. I can't say the opposite, while I was piloting it... again, watch the score to statistically see how much good the FC3 fighters are if compared with the Mirage.

And I wanna highlight again: I'm not talking about the realism, neither I'm asking the Mirage to be tuned, it's just how it goes.

 

This was a session of mine (CrashOverDrive) in the 104th a few nights ago. It's not a real economical KD ratio (slightly above 1)..tax payers are not going to like me :music_whistling:

 

But against a force consisting of mainly F15's and Su-27's, it shows the Mirage can certainly hold her own. As long you can play her strengths. Fly low and fast on radar standby, fly towards targets at your RWR. Turn on radar and try to close the gap while flying on TWS. When in range, pop up. Switch to STT and fire immediately.

I almost always hit my targets. It's only after my initial target is dead.. I'm usually screwed, because I'm always waaaay behind enemy lines by the time I pop up..