Questions for RL Heli Pilots

[AG-51_Razor]

Within my class at Ft Rucker, the average flight time till solo was around 10 hours. As a civilian flight instructor, I found that to be the case as well. However, NeilWillis is absolutely right, the first solo is nothing more than a confidence builder. At Ft Rucker, the army discouraged anyone from flying a fixed wing during training if they were already a rated pilot for fear of any possible negative transfere of habits. They actually preferred a student with no prior flight experience. Personally, I found that with prior flight experience (I came into the army with a private FW license and about 450 hrs) it was much easier to concentrate on learning how to fly the helicopter having already learned how to navigate, talk on the radio and developed a little air sense.

 

Ligeti, there are companies that will charge a newly hired pilot for his transition training but that is fairly rare. They sometimes require the pilot to sign a contract that obligates them for the cost of the training if they leave the company within a specified amount of time. For the most part though, companies hire their pilots based on their qualifications that are already in their log book. It's not a career that is easy to advance within. It doesn't pay especially well either until you gain the flight time and experience to move up into better paying jobs. It's sort of like the proverbial Catch 22!:doh:

[Ligeti]

Within my class at Ft Rucker, the average flight time till solo was around 10 hours. As a civilian flight instructor, I found that to be the case as well. However, NeilWillis is absolutely right, the first solo is nothing more than a confidence builder. At Ft Rucker, the army discouraged anyone from flying a fixed wing during training if they were already a rated pilot for fear of any possible negative transfere of habits. They actually preferred a student with no prior flight experience. Personally, I found that with prior flight experience (I came into the army with a private FW license and about 450 hrs) it was much easier to concentrate on learning how to fly the helicopter having already learned how to navigate, talk on the radio and developed a little air sense.

 

Ligeti, there are companies that will charge a newly hired pilot for his transition training but that is fairly rare. They sometimes require the pilot to sign a contract that obligates them for the cost of the training if they leave the company within a specified amount of time. For the most part though, companies hire their pilots based on their qualifications that are already in their log book. It's not a career that is easy to advance within. It doesn't pay especially well either until you gain the flight time and experience to move up into better paying jobs. It's sort of like the proverbial Catch 22!:doh:

 

If companies invest in pilots it's fair that they sign on for a few years. I suppose if the situation becomes too bad for pilots economically the industry will have to start investing in pilot training or face a shortage, the labour market should adjust itself, in theory ;-)

 

I was flying the Mi8 in DCS tonight, nice and stable and she can take some punishment from ground fire. Sometimes though I do notice it has tendancy to pull up into a steep climb, might just be me though. Some guided missiles and door gunners would be nice too. Oh and I really want those cockpit fans to become functional asap :-)

[cichlidfan]

Oh and I really want those cockpit fans to become functional asap :-)

 

It would appear that you are going to fit in just fine around here. :lol:

[Flagrum]

Oh and I really want those cockpit fans to become functional asap :-)

If I have not missed a bug report, then they should be working already. Just turn them on at that triangle panel.

[snowsniper]

My instructor told me early on to not try to turn by moving the stick, turn by THINKING about moving the stick.. This helped a lot.. VERY tiny movements..

...

And DCS does an amazing job and I am hooked for life!

 

thanks for that great tip.

[Yurgon]

Razor, thanks a lot for providing so much insight, very interesting! :thumbup:

[Ligeti]

If I have not missed a bug report, then they should be working already. Just turn them on at that triangle panel.

 

You are correct! I didn't notice that they'd been fixed. My life is complete.

 

Although I couldn't get the windscreen wipers to work so there may be some life goals left.

[PapaSmoke]

Hi Ligety, all,

 

I'm very new to the forums and recently coming back to DCS after a few years away. Much has changed! (For the good). Great to see that there is such a great community - I'm looking forward to hopefully fitting in.

 

I happen to fly helicopters, so I thought I'd lend my two-penneth...

 

1: I enjoy learning about different types of aircraft, especially from a technical standpoint. Also, DCS gives me an opportunity to exercise my brain and actually have fun while I'm "flying" rather than it being purely work. That's certainly not to say I don't enjoy my job though!

 

2: I found the actual flying of helicopters, particularly hovering, much harder in DCS. I suspect that this is to do with depth perception and the fact that your scan is all screwed up because you're looking at the world through a very small window (a 22" monitor in my case). I've found that night flying on NVD is more closely approximate to real life, but of course in the actual aircraft, as others have pointed out already, there are loads of other cues like vibration and the seat of your pants, to feed into your SA.

 

3: The sims I've flown have had collimated display and are full-motion, fully enclosed things. Having that peripheral vision really makes a difference.

 

4: My main piece of advice would be don't put too much pressure on yourself to be good. There's loads more stuff to being a decent pilot than being able to nail hovering inside a few hours! The more relaxed you are and the better you get on with your instructor, the better you'll perform. I think having DCS experience will cut down on the really early-hour stuff - mostly ground school type things - like what the instruments are etc.

 

5: I think you'd definitely have issues. Its amazing the difference between the really complex full-motion sims and the actual aircraft, never mind DCS. The amount of mental capacity you lose just sitting in a helicopter with the rotors turning is terrifying! If you get a chance for a lesson though, take it - just be careful because it might be the most expensive thing you ever do! As well as flying for a living and sitting in front of DCS from time to time, I also end up doing a fair bit of private flying. It's addictive!

 

6: I'm really excited to see where VR goes in the next couple of years. I think with the way things are now with graphics and computer tech, it could be just what flight sims need to become mainstream again. There sure can't be anything better for a VR experience than flying. I would like to see more game mechanics around the less-sexy side of combat flying, particularly support helicopter operations, and really deep scenarios that force you to make decisions. A lot of the time you can have a really tricky, rewarding mission without ever seeing the enemy.

 

Hope these answers are something like what you're looking for.

 

Blue skies.

[cichlidfan]

They should move this thread out of Chit Chat. There are some very rep deserving posts in this thread.

[Yurgon]

PapaSmoke, good info as well, thanks!

 

They should move this thread out of Chit Chat. There are some very rep deserving posts in this thread.

 

Nah, I think the thread is more or less in the right place.

 

They should just remove this nonsensical restriction that posts can't be repped in Chit-Chat.

 

Anyway, it takes like 1 minute to find other posts from these guys and +rep those. :thumbup:

[Ligeti]

Hi Ligety, all,

 

I'm very new to the forums and recently coming back to DCS after a few years away. Much has changed! (For the good). Great to see that there is such a great community - I'm looking forward to hopefully fitting in.

 

I happen to fly helicopters, so I thought I'd lend my two-penneth...

 

1: I enjoy learning about different types of aircraft, especially from a technical standpoint. Also, DCS gives me an opportunity to exercise my brain and actually have fun while I'm "flying" rather than it being purely work. That's certainly not to say I don't enjoy my job though!

 

2: I found the actual flying of helicopters, particularly hovering, much harder in DCS. I suspect that this is to do with depth perception and the fact that your scan is all screwed up because you're looking at the world through a very small window (a 22" monitor in my case). I've found that night flying on NVD is more closely approximate to real life, but of course in the actual aircraft, as others have pointed out already, there are loads of other cues like vibration and the seat of your pants, to feed into your SA.

 

3: The sims I've flown have had collimated display and are full-motion, fully enclosed things. Having that peripheral vision really makes a difference.

 

4: My main piece of advice would be don't put too much pressure on yourself to be good. There's loads more stuff to being a decent pilot than being able to nail hovering inside a few hours! The more relaxed you are and the better you get on with your instructor, the better you'll perform. I think having DCS experience will cut down on the really early-hour stuff - mostly ground school type things - like what the instruments are etc.

 

5: I think you'd definitely have issues. Its amazing the difference between the really complex full-motion sims and the actual aircraft, never mind DCS. The amount of mental capacity you lose just sitting in a helicopter with the rotors turning is terrifying! If you get a chance for a lesson though, take it - just be careful because it might be the most expensive thing you ever do! As well as flying for a living and sitting in front of DCS from time to time, I also end up doing a fair bit of private flying. It's addictive!

 

6: I'm really excited to see where VR goes in the next couple of years. I think with the way things are now with graphics and computer tech, it could be just what flight sims need to become mainstream again. There sure can't be anything better for a VR experience than flying. I would like to see more game mechanics around the less-sexy side of combat flying, particularly support helicopter operations, and really deep scenarios that force you to make decisions. A lot of the time you can have a really tricky, rewarding mission without ever seeing the enemy.

 

Hope these answers are something like what you're looking for.

 

Blue skies.

 

Great answers thanks.

 

The main issue I have with sims is the small window issue (not compared to real life flying as I've not done any, just real lift in general), hopefully VR headsets will continue to improve in resolution so they get closer to human vision. I tried an early developer-version Oculus Rift a while ago and while the sensation of space was impressive, I could clearly see pixels. I wonder what resolution will be required to approach human vision in a VR headset? I guess we're a fair way from that but hopefully not too far.

 

Agree about more in-depth senarios and support missions. Working out how to move troops or cargo with limited fuel, changing weather and risk of ground fire would be good. CSAR would be good too imo.

 

I'll add some rep to people in this thread for their quality responses when I get on my PC, can't seem to do it through my phone browser.

[cichlidfan]

Anyway, it takes like 1 minute to find other posts from these guys and +rep those. :thumbup:

 

I'm lazy today. :P

[PapaSmoke]

Any kind of tactical support-helicopter mission would be great, particularly if the planning cycle was catered for in a multiplayer environment. Having a tasking sheet delivered to your group and then having to plan, for example, a four-ship troop insert would be quite interesting. Not to mention the various decisions to be made when the you actually start flying and:

a. The weather is crap

b. The troops aren't there

c. When you find them, they want to go somewhere other than where you planned

d. That place is in REALLY crap weather

e. The enemy aren't where you expected them either

f. You get retasked on the bounce from dropping off but...

g. Because of the whole weather/enemy thing you're really tight on fuel so...

h. You have to decide whether to get more fuel or just go, oh and by the way...

i. The retask is a troops-in-contact...

 

You get the idea. It could be a lot of fun!

[Yurgon]

I'm lazy today. :P

 

Well I wasn't; maybe a "Think so too" or two might help :D

 

Request to allow reputation in Chit-Chat

[636_Castle]

I feel like these questions can be translated over to a fixed wing pilot, and the information could be a little useful to you still, so I'll give it my best shot from an airplane pilot perspective. outlawal2 touched on a lot of really good points that I agree with.

 

1: Variety mostly, control over the environment and meteorological conditions etc. Can't exactly go rent an A-10 from the local FBO! Most real world pilot simmers are aviation enthusiasts, and enjoy all aspects of aviation. Hell, I'm a real world pilot, and I still have DCS, X-Plane 10, P3D, and FSX Steam Edition installed! Whether it's cruising in an F-5, or gently caring for an old warbird! I can fly almost anything my heart desires, at any time of day, regardless of the weather outside, and regardless if I'm sick or not, at any location in the world in a simulator. I won't talk about price since you specifically mention a sim versus flying for hire. You're not typically paying when you fly for hire. Although, if you're flying privately, it is a major consideration and often times a deal breaker for many.

 

2: Again, can't comment on helicopters, but it's a bit harder in a sim for an airplane. Obviously nothing can replace the raw, linear control inputs you get from flying the real thing, and nothing can replace real world head tracking/view! Although I'd be interested in testing out VR sometime to see what that's like. FOV is also nearly 180 degrees in the real world. Easier to spot things out of the corner of your eye, or see things without needing to zoom in. Easier to feel and hear what's happening with the airplane without having to constantly double check your VSI to see if you're climbing or descending.

 

3: Never flown anything like that. :-)

 

4: A LOT. Sim pilots tend to glorify the fun parts of aviation, but rarely do they realize you'll spend many hours learning all about regulations, like how soon you need to notify the FAA of mailing address changes...etc (and yes, you'll be tested on those things!) There's more to it than meets the eye sometimes. I was a sim pilot for 10 years before I began training, and had no idea how to identify the differences between an FSS and a FSDO, I didn't have right-of-ways memorized, that kind of thing. Not only is local law enforcement and the federal government watching out for your mistakes, but you're also dealing with your own life...and the lives of others. There's no room for letting certain subjects slip your mind. Real world pilots will sometimes terrify themselves, too. I know I've been scared in the cockpit before, and it's not as fun as triggering a random failure in the comfort of your own office chair.

 

5: As far as being able to get in and take off? Sure. Staying out of trouble by knowing what to do with special use airspace, and knowing what you need to ensure your person, and aircraft are airworthy are different. The answer to number 4 sums up the answer to this one pretty well. However, since flight models tend to be a little squirrelly in sims, a sim pilot may actually be able to handle most aspects of flying quite well!

 

6: My main gripes are always aerodynamic principles. Ground effect, wind sheer, and thermal forces are almost always nonexistent. Mechanical lift and mountain waves are usually ignored. Then you have controller axis curve issues. Weather draw distance is usually pretty small. For example, you can't see nasty weather coming your way, because a simulator will draw a singular weather situation around you, until it updates to draw something else.

 

Hope this helps :)

Edited June 13, 2016 by 636_Castle

[Yurgon]

636_Castle, great info as well, thanks a lot! :thumbup:

[Ligeti]

Yes thanks Castle, good stuff.

 

The comments about weather effects are interesting, I sort of assumed most of that was modelled already. On the bright side, more things to look forward to in sims of the future.

[kobac]

1. I'm retired now, so I have a lot of free time so I can dedicate myself to DCS simulator. And of course it is much cheaper :music_whistling:
    
   
2. I have more than 1.500 flight hours on Gazelle, but for me it is more difficult to fly in DCS simulator than in real life, this is primarily because the DCS rely solely on vision and little in the hearing as human sensors to fly, while the RL we have a whole body. The main disadvantage of flying in a simulation like this is diversity between the pilot stick&throttle and imprecision joysticks that we use.
    
    
   
3. I never flown professional/expensive hardware simulators :(
    
   
4. My advice to you is learn better read instrument display and arrangement of attention (how it says in my country) a thought to switch views from the instruments on the view outside the cockpit and situational awareness. Learn to remember the place where you fly (from where you t/o) and traffic pattern speed, altitude, places beginning and end turns, change of regime - climbing, descent, etc.. so that you can land on any terrain. Using the MP you can overcome a lot of aeronautical phraseology.
    
   
5. This shall not try at all! Without instructor I think not a single aviation authorities will not allow that.
    
   
6. I think that 3D VR glasses the path in a good direction.
   

[Ligeti]

Thanks Kobac, great to hear from a real Gazelle pilot.

 

Are you enjoying the Polychop module?