RWR, Radar close combat mode

[cauldron]

It has been a while since i've been able to do any testing - sorry :cry:. Did a test flight in 1.5 mission editor of Mg2000 vs. Sabre yesterday.

 

Besides the sabre being able to out maneuver the Mirage at any altitude over 10k feet and especially high altitude - which was a surprise to me. I noticed something strange: The RWR detects the Sabre's gunnery radar just fine as they approach each other for the merge, what is odd, is that after the flyby, it keeps chirping and signalling for about 8 seconds when clearly the sabre radar has no view to the mirage at all. I did the same maneuver with the FC3 planes and they work spot on. As soon as the sabre passes in the flyby the rwr stops.

 

Just thought i'd throw this out there if anyone else can confirm this severe delay on updating.

 

In the same test i also found that the Close combat radar mode would also have a large delay in acquiring the target even if the sabre is in boresight from the mirage and the radar is in the lateral C.C. mode. though it did capture the target quickly and repeatedly after 2 or 3 tries. seems odd behavior.

[Beamscanner]

IRL, depending on the sensitivity of the RWR, you might still be able to pick up signals that are not directly looking at you if the received signal strength is powerful enough. (being so close to the transmitter would likely mean that the signal can still be seen even if your not inside the radars "view")

 

If anything, the FC3 RWRs are in the wrong. And the RWR in the Mirage is working "spot on".

 

Some old digital RWRs have a delay because of the limited processing power of the day. Older analog RWRs didn't have the computational bottleneck, and newer digital RWRs can processes data much faster.. I'm not sure if the Mirage falls into this category or not.

 

Depending on the radar, certain radar modes may require more frames (scan sequences) with raw returns before a track is allowed to be built. Now this is very specific to the radar and how it is designed, but in most cases if the radar is expected to process returns in the Doppler clutter region (wide aspect search) it will require a return to populate in more frames before building a track on it. This is done to reduce the likelihood of false targets being built from ground clutter.

 

'Close combat mode' usually implies a wide aspect search, which means the radar now has to process EM energy in the ground clutter region of the Doppler spectrum. So yes, realistically the delay makes sense.

[red_coreSix]

I think what you are experiencing is simply the track memory of the RWR that keeps displaying lost tracks for a few seconds to make sure you don't miss them.

[Azrayen]

^ this :)

[cauldron]

Thank you guys. I tried some non scientific flying around and noticed that the RWR sings past a merge even if the opposing plane is in 5 pieces and burning. :lol:

 

its gotta be the track delay.

 

btw... my apologies for the Sabre comment.. i got out maneuvered because i went into a turn fight at .8M at 30k feet and lost badly. Got to cocky. though i still wonder...anyways thanks!

[Zeus67]

RWR has an 8 seconds memory for safety. That way an emitter that was detected and promptly lost would be there getting your attention.

[myHelljumper]

Are those 8 seconds from manual or is it a WAgess ?

[Zeus67]

Are those 8 seconds from manual or is it a WAgess ?

 

Everything about RWR is WAGuess. :smartass:

 

RWR, alongside ECM and ECCM are one of the most heavily classified systems. More than radar.

[Chrinik]

Also, don´t use AI opponents as a benchmark for anything...they use SFM.

[OldE24]

Everything about RWR is WAGuess. :smartass:

 

RWR, alongside ECM and ECCM are one of the most heavily classified systems. More than radar.

 

if it's just WAGuess it could use to be shortened to 4 seconds or so as when you go though a merge with a guy it contines to beep for an amount of time that gets to be annoying.

[jojo]

if it's just WAGuess it could use to be shortened to 4 seconds or so as when you go though a merge with a guy it contines to beep for an amount of time that gets to be annoying.

 

4 seconds wouldn't cover the period of a 4 lines x 120 degrees scan at 100d/s.

 

So you could have a flickering contact.

 

You also have to cover the rotating period of ground radars...

[Azrayen]

You also have to cover the rotating period of ground radars...

Which actually could be even more than 8".

[jojo]

Which actually could be even more than 8".

 

Yep, but then it's less likely to be a direct threat :smartass:

In fact, that rotating period is one criteria of ID (amongst other, like PRF, frequency etc...)

[Azrayen]

Agreed.

This being said, memory could probably be lessened for STT signals: those have short period of recurrence, due to their very nature.

Don't know what is doable in DCS on that topic, but seems a good idea "from the top of my head".

[Beamscanner]

Which actually could be even more than 8".

 

Most of the emitters that have those long scans operate below the rf range of most fighter RWRs.

 

 

Also, the OP mentioned that the RWR on the mirage acted differently than that of the F-15.. So I assumed he was experiencing something other than the 8 second decay rate of the RWR as that would result in the same outcome for both Mirage and FC aircraft.(as the f-15 has the same feature)

 

I don't have the mirage module, but if you see a signal swing around you continuously through a merge (at medium to high altitude) then it's working like most RWRs IRL. If your low to the ground, then a real RWR might display a bearing to a reflection off the ground from the main beam of the radar, instead of a bearing to the radar itself via a sidelobe. Real life indications can be skewed based on the main beam position and the surrounding environment.

Edited June 30, 2016 by Beamscanner

[jojo]

I'm pretty sure DCS World won't handle reflected beam :D