Can't find contacts at close range

[VAF [136] Striker]

I can find targets using "Interleaved" mode all the time without any problem at long range. A good example is I lock a target up at 40-50km with the range set to 60km. Even if the target is jamming I can get a decent lock as soon as the radar burns through the jammer at about 45-50 km. I'll track the target right up to 20km but then when it reaches about 15-20km it just disappears off of the radar. Within 10-15km, no matter what I do I can't get it back on the radar again. I already know what altitude the target is at and it's aspect angle so I know it's not an altitude setting. It has to be something to do with the PRF setting I'm guessing. Can someone explain to me what I'm probably doing wrong.

[DarkFire]

Could it be that the targets you have locked are reacting and beaming you? Do you see any aspect change jest before they disappear? Medium PRF is better than high for side-on or rear aspect targets but they can still enter the doppler notch & disappear from your radar.

[VAF [136] Striker]

No, they're still coming straight at me for the most part. This is a great example since I've been thinking about it. I'll lock them up temporarily just to locate their position then unlock them. I'll keep doing this and they're still coming straight at me. I'm in interleaved mode and as soon as they get within 15 km I can't find them again. I haven't fired at all they just aren't there any more. Should I have switched to medium at a specific distance. I know that a lot of this is not relevant since I would have fired a missile when in range but if I've already fired one or two shots and they're closing, that's where I'm having the most trouble. Also, I've tried the HMS but I've found that I have to be looking right at them to get a lock. I'm guessing this is working correctly but I've found that bore and vertical scan works better at close range. Is the HMS dependent on the PRF setting too?

[winchesterdelta1]

Switch to Medium PRF.

[VAF [136] Striker]

Switch to Medium PRF.

OK thanks. I'll give that a try.

[Frostie]

Don't forget the radar has a refresh rate, it doesn't update instantly, otherwise or with that in mind are you sure it's not an elevation issue, the closer the contact is the smaller your radar cone is.

[Mamba]

...40-50km with the range set to 60km.

 

Are you saying they're breaking lock at 15kms?

 

If not, then the above is likely your problem. Adjusting the range for the radar alters the degree of movement per click up or down on the radars elevation. Even knowing their altitude you could be too slow in moving the radar.

 

I would leave it at 10 always.

[VAF [136] Striker]

Don't forget the radar has a refresh rate, it doesn't update instantly, otherwise or with that in mind are you sure it's not an elevation issue, the closer the contact is the smaller your radar cone is.

It could be a combination of both. I've been setting the radar out to 50 or 60 when tracking them inbound but when they get closer I've been setting it down to 20-30 but maybe I need to set it lower like around 10. I'm pretty sure that as you decrease the range you're widening the angle of the radar cone or is that not correct? Otherwise you'd be constantly adjusting the radar angle which seems unnecessary. The one thing I haven't been doing is switching to medium PRF.

[kobeshow]

It could be a combination of both. I've been setting the radar out to 50 or 60 when tracking them inbound but when they get closer I've been setting it down to 20-30 but maybe I need to set it lower like around 10. I'm pretty sure that as you decrease the range you're widening the angle of the radar cone or is that not correct? Otherwise you'd be constantly adjusting the radar angle which seems unnecessary. The one thing I haven't been doing is switching to medium PRF.

 

the range you are setting works in combination with your radar elevation. you know how it tells you "1...2...3..." the further you move the radar up and the same with negative numbers when you move it down? this number shows the altitude difference relative from your position, and relative to the range setting you have selected, so you might be looking at +2km at 25km distance for example. the radar range setting is merely for display purposes, and does not affect what your radar cone does whatsoever, that remains the same whatever you do.

 

you can check this by looking at how muss less pitch movement there is for an altitude difference of 1km when you increase the range you want to be looking at.

so to "look around faster" I leave my distance setting at 10km in most cases.

sometimes when i have the time I use a precise range setting for the target to find his exact altitude without locking him up, but that is rarely necessary (in the Game of course... reality is probably a lot different)

[VAF [136] Striker]

the radar range setting is merely for display purposes, and does not affect what your radar cone does whatsoever, that remains the same whatever you do.

OK, then that would make sense then. So if the contact is below and close the radar cone wouldn't even be illuminating the target.

 

OK, so then that brings up another question. I think I read somewhere that the radar on the Su-27 is designed to point forward all the time within certain parameters. So for instance if you point the nose up at 10 degrees, the radar is still looking forward horizontal and the same thing if you point the nose down 10 degrees. Is that correct or did I misinterpret that? If that's the case then when I nose down and try to illuminate targets it wouldn't necessarily see them unless I manually move the antenna down?

 

But it looks like the only way to find targets that are in close is to be constantly moving the antenna up, down, left and right and setting it to medium PRF and switching from radar to IRST to radar?

[kobeshow]

you are correct, the radar is stabilised horizontally, so when your target gets closer you need to be moving the antenna down if he is below you.

[VAF [136] Striker]

you are correct, the radar is stabilised horizontally, so when your target gets closer you need to be moving the antenna down if he is below you.

Thanks, I understand now. I'll do some more practice with it this evening. I think that I need to just get used to moving that antenna around as quickly as I can. I might make a modifier so that I can use one of my joystick buttons to do the job.

[GGTharos]

Hi Striker, I would suggest that once the target is withing 25km, you go to STT straight away. This is a basic technique for most MSA radars. Even TWS is not recommended in RL at that point.

 

For the flanker, inside 15km you should be tally and your CAC starts working at 10km.

 

The radar scan rate is too slow to deal with a contract that is that close to you and anywhere near the edge of the scan zone, so if you have no contact but you know he's there, you really need to transition to visual.

[Frostie]

Thanks, I understand now. I'll do some more practice with it this evening. I think that I need to just get used to moving that antenna around as quickly as I can. I might make a modifier so that I can use one of my joystick buttons to do the job.

 

Yes you need elevation mapped for easy access as this is a primary function when using the radar. As has been said keep your range set at default 10 while you are getting to grips with how the scanning works, you can scan the whole sky at this setting and the majority of the time you won't need to set elevation beyond +/-3 or 4, 1 increment equalling the centre of the radar 1000m altitude +/- your own altitude, at 10km range. As you can imagine a setting of 60km range at +1 elevation would elevate your radar much less because it looks at +1000m of your own altitude at a point in the sky 60km from you rather than 10km.

[VAF [136] Striker]

Well I can tell you all that all the suggestions worked like a charm. I kept the range indicator to 10 and mapped the antenna adjustment to a HOTAS button so I can change it quickly and I can find the targets almost immediately now. I've also been switching to medium PRF and that helps as well. So I track the target until close then when in CAC switch to IRST and can find them every time now while in rear aspect. If they're notching I switch to bore or vertical and can usually find them either that way or visually anyhow. Thank you for all the help. Great to have such amazing Su-27 experts available for the advise!