F-5E Vs. MiG 21 GRUDGE MATCH (Special PVP Event)

[Zooker]

Any plans to fly together prior to the main event?

[FLANKERATOR]

We desperately need a new feature from the devs where the game master/host (not flying) could see everything and even modify the mission in real-time! something similar to Zeus for Arma3. That would be awesome wouldn't it.

 

Now we're stuck with either locking everything up for the sake of competition or leaving exploitable breaches. Replaying the track is a pain and is never accurate anyway.

[Hook47]

We desperately need a new feature from the devs where the game master/host (not flying) could see everything and even modify the mission in real-time! something similar to Zeus for Arma3. That would be awesome wouldn't it.

 

Now we're stuck with either locking everything up for the sake of competition or leaving exploitable breaches. Replaying the track is a pain and is never accurate anyway.

 

Totally agree, it needs to be added ASAP.

 

The final decision on this is that Labels will be OFF, map view will be ALLIES ONLY, but externals will be ON. The live streaming and recording of this event is a big part of the goal to help spread interest in these two great modules and add to the fun, additionally since scoring and some game mechanics will require Game Master Monitoring, external views will be needed, so while I know it is a concern for the participants, we will be requesting on the honor system that pilots refrain from abusing external views. The good news is with the map set to allies only it appears you cannot view external on enemy aircraft.

 

Flankerator has been extremely helpful in advising me on preparing this little match, and has kindly offered partnership in future events to follow this one. If this match is successful and we continue with additional rounds, we will proceed with full hardcore settings to include removing externals

 

Thanks for the input and understanding

[Hook47]

Any plans to fly together prior to the main event?

 

This is ultimately up to the team captains. For fairness reasons I'll withhold the mission for the battle until the day of, but if practice is desired before hand I can certainly put up a practice mission and server- just let me know what time is good if

You guys want to get together

[Zooker]

Victory will come down more to teamwork, communication, and strategy than the performance of individual planes. A server and practice mission would be great. F-5 pilots, hit me up on discord, username Zooker if you'd like to fly together prior to Sunday.

[Hook47]

Victory will come down more to teamwork, communication, and strategy than the performance of individual planes. A server and practice mission would be great. F-5 pilots, hit me up on discord, username Zooker if you'd like to fly together prior to Sunday.

 

Thank you for putting this out there, I will get a practice server up and post times here ASAP

[Hummingbird]

I'd hold up the event until the F-5's performance inaccuracies have been patched out - otherwise the wrong winner might be crowned ;)

[Tony_Kito]

Another question, Ramsey.

 

Is the match really going to take place in the Open Beta version of DCS?

 

What's the advantage of hosting it in Open Beta, rather than 1.5.4 Stable?

 

I ask this because I only have a single Steam DCS install and have very little Hard Drive space left for anything, although surely I can get an Open Beta install, but it would just be a lot more convenient for me and I'm sure for others if it was hosted on stable.

 

Again, just a question.

[Hook47]

Another question, Ramsey.

 

Is the match really going to take place in the Open Beta version of DCS?

 

What's the advantage of hosting it in Open Beta, rather than 1.5.4 Stable?

 

I ask this because I only have a single Steam DCS install and have very little Hard Drive space left for anything, although surely I can get an Open Beta install, but it would just be a lot more convenient for me and I'm sure for others if it was hosted on stable.

 

Again, just a question.

 

If Open Bets and Stable Branch both have the F-5 then we can conduct it on stable branch to ensure we are on the same version. I'll do some testing and come out with an update on that later today. Originally I stated Open Beta because I wasn't sure how quickly the main version would get the F-5

 

I'd hold up the event until the F-5's performance inaccuracies have been patched out - otherwise the wrong winner might be crowned ;)

 

Many things around here get delayed, post poned or canceled for various and sometimes unavoidable reasons, but This event will not be one of them. Both aircraft are in a playable state and more than able to engage eachother in a fair fight, so the event will continue. As it stands now, The only reason this will be pushed to the back up date is because of turnout. Endless debate will continue about performance of the F-5, and if not the F-5 the MiG 21 and/or both, because that's the nature of a sim community who pours themselves into an aviation fascination and that is just fine, but in any case- the show must go on! :)

 

The wrong aircraft won't be crowned, the team that flies best will be crowned, and their airframe along with them

Edited July 27, 2016 by Hook47

[Hummingbird]

Ramsey, the F-5 is currently capable of pulling load factors upwards of 0.6 to 1 G's too high - this is going have a major impact on the match up.

 

The performance characteristics will be corrected however as we have hard data on what it should be for these aircraft in the form of actual EM charts. In other words there is no debate over how it should be, just statements :) These are not WW2 aircraft after all ;)

[OperatorJack]

I may not be able to make it on the night due to personal commitments. Wait out on that however, hopefully there's a reserve on standby just incase!

 

I do however think the event may need to be held off til the Tiger's missiles are less useless

[Hook47]

I may not be able to make it on the night due to personal commitments. Wait out on that however, hopefully there's a reserve on standby just incase!

 

I do however think the event may need to be held off til the Tiger's missiles are less useless

 

Let me know, I'll hold off on changes until you say for sure

 

I know the F-5s seeker FOV is too small and it's an issue, and a few have mentioned putting off the event, but ultimately this is about having a good time and gathering interest in the aircraft, so as it stands now Round 1 will continue with current build. There will be additional rounds and chances to settle the score if it is felt this impacted the F-5s too heavily.

[Hummingbird]

Just gonna drop this here..

 

 

Known DCS F-5E bugs and inconsistencies:

- IDLE RPM (Thrust) vs altitude. IDLE thrust too big at altitude.

- Damaged aircraft without one wing sink smoothly.

- No spin after tail slide. According to TO, when tailsliding with pitch > 70 degrees the plane should enter inverted spin.

- Choсks animation linked to canopy animation on net phantom

- Turn perfomance at 5000ft. Sustained turn curve has no step on 330 KIAS.

- No compressor stall and flameout.

- Max lift g-loads. According to TO at 5000 ft and GW 13750 the F-5 can achieve 6.0 G at M = 0.5. In simulator the plane can achieve 6.6 at M=0.5 and 7.1 at M = 0.52.

- Pitch down input is too abrupt due to absence of half of the axis. stick fwd movenent is less, than aft, but the scale of joystick-virtual stick is the same for aft and fwd movement.

- Missing missile excess-G marker on LCOSS.

- Gunsight mode A/A1 works incorrect.

- AIM-9 seeker FOV is very narrow.

- RWR sound issues. No sounds are present for new radar sources

- Only one attempt to lock-on after ACQ button release in radar search mode.

- Radar elevation controls stop working after target lock is broken.

- Lock gate cannot be controlled after severl mode switches.

[*Rage*]

Jeez. It's just a fun match. You realise externals are on? Enjoy it for what it is...

[Hummingbird]

I'm just quoting Belsimtek's own buglist incase someone missed it.

 

If we're lucky these things are fixed with the next update. One thing is for sure, they are working on it.

[Hook47]

Just gonna drop this here..

 

 

Known DCS F-5E bugs and inconsistencies:

- IDLE RPM (Thrust) vs altitude. IDLE thrust too big at altitude.

- Damaged aircraft without one wing sink smoothly.

- No spin after tail slide. According to TO, when tailsliding with pitch > 70 degrees the plane should enter inverted spin.

- Choсks animation linked to canopy animation on net phantom

- Turn perfomance at 5000ft. Sustained turn curve has no step on 330 KIAS.

- No compressor stall and flameout.

- Max lift g-loads. According to TO at 5000 ft and GW 13750 the F-5 can achieve 6.0 G at M = 0.5. In simulator the plane can achieve 6.6 at M=0.5 and 7.1 at M = 0.52.

- Pitch down input is too abrupt due to absence of half of the axis. stick fwd movenent is less, than aft, but the scale of joystick-virtual stick is the same for aft and fwd movement.

- Missing missile excess-G marker on LCOSS.

- Gunsight mode A/A1 works incorrect.

- AIM-9 seeker FOV is very narrow.

- RWR sound issues. No sounds are present for new radar sources

- Only one attempt to lock-on after ACQ button release in radar search mode.

- Radar elevation controls stop working after target lock is broken.

- Lock gate cannot be controlled after severl mode switches.

 

Respectfully you aren't really contributing to the event here, Hummingbird, as I have stated multiple times I am aware of the bugs and the match will continue, barring any earth shattering revelation. You are welcome to fly with us, and I have no issue with constructive discussion but honestly at this point interjecting things we are all aware of isn't helping anything, and all participants are aware this is for the enjoyment of the new modules and to have a good time. I've even stated further rounds will be held and that this is to garner interest in the aircraft and idea behind this- you may be taking the "crowning" of the best aircraft a bit too seriously. Even if BST fixed every single issue tomorrow, the argument would then just swing over to the issues with the MiG 21. No module will be perfect, ever. We will work with what we have and have a good time in the process.

Edited July 29, 2016 by Hook47

[Hook47]

TS3 server is up! I am working on a practice time, but all pilots are welcome to use this server for comms in practice as much as needed! I'd recommend the MiG 21 Vs F-5 server currently up while waiting for an official practice

[Darkbrotherhood7]

TS3 server is up! I am working on a practice time, but all pilots are welcome to use this server for comms in practice as much as needed! I'd recommend the MiG 21 Vs F-5 server currently up while waiting for an official practice

Great news!

 

What is the server IP? Will you be sending via PM?

 

BTW, I'm practicing every day lol :joystick:

[Hook47]

Great news!

 

What is the server IP? Will you be sending via PM?

 

BTW, I'm practicing every day lol :joystick:

 

 

Team speak server IP is on first page, the practice game server hasn't been arranged yet but I am working on it! :) The MiG vs F-5 game server I referred to is game server currently open to the public hosted by another party

[Hummingbird]

Wish I could participate, but I won't be home from holiday till friday next week. I'll be ready for round 2 though and hopefully at least the performance inaccuracies have been patched out by then :)

[NaCH]

I would say remove AWACs but add a GCI or ABM.

[EagleFox]

I wont be able to play. Sorry maybe next time :(

[Hook47]

I wont be able to play. Sorry maybe next time :(

 

I've removed you...

 

 

Chimango- you've been bumped up from the reserve to an active slot

[Hook47]

As the event draws closer I wanted to put out some information- I'll update first page as needed

 

Attendance is a cocncern is sometimes not everyone who reserved will be there, so we will push with a minimum of four pilots on each team. Hoping for a full house!

 

Teamspeak Detials have been posted- the Game Server info will be shared on team speak during the event briefing. This is to prevent unauthorized attendees from crashing the party :)

 

The event match time will be 75 minutes, with the option for overtime should the scores be tied. The clock will start ticking from the moment both teams begin rolling down the runway, so briefing and set up will not chip away at this time

 

Each team will be equipped with 18 aircraft (assuming full turn out, will be adjusted on the basis of 3 aircraft per player should attendance not be full) meaning each player can in theory respawn twice after their first life. In addition there will be multiple ground targets serving as score opportunities for each team, and each teams ground targets mirror the others.

 

At the end of 75 minutes- the team that has killed the most aircraft, ground targets, or BOTH will be the victor! Note that the only way to end the match before 75 minutes will be to destroy all of the opposing teams aircraft, otherwise it will depend on scoring at match end

 

As you guys know this event is planned on being live streamed and recorded for public enjoyment, which will probably include voice communications, so sportsmanlike conduct and reasonably clean language is requested :)

 

EDIT: regarding the latest patch to 2.0 that included some F-5 fixes- while I would love to move the match to 2.0 and utilize those fixes it isn't right for me to ask the contestants to change plans at such short notice, particularly with 2.0 being paid content. The match will continue as planned on 1.5, and I know the Tigers have their work cut out for them, but following rounds will take place in whichever version has the best F-5 be it 2.0 or 1.5 (or maybe 2.5??? Let's hope so!)

Edited July 30, 2016 by Hook47

[OperatorJack]

Right, as stated before I actually can't make the event now, sorry guys! good luck team Mikoyan!