Maciver Posted October 10, 2006 Posted October 10, 2006 Ice, are you serious? I mean come on, really? Is this thing a big joke you are playing on us? I've been playing lock on for nearly a year now. Everyone seems really nice, always helpfull. Always willing to help people learn. Great community, really. Who are you?? Because you don't seem very friendly to me. Ive watched with light hearted amusement how this subject has touched a nerve. Until it started to get personal. Is that what is fun for you on your spare time? You're joking again, right? Light hearted amusement? You've been pushing this for days from what i've seen. Well, according to you, weeks. You come on to teamspeak, all but telling us this is THE way it needs to be. Get over your self dude. Server admin says he wants it on, so guess what? It stays on! If he wants it off, he'll turn it off. Light hearted amusement? I'm surprised you didn't give yourself an ulcer from that night on teamspeak. I thought you would start crying if we didn't turn it off. All this veiled speach and and indirect backstabbing of me is quite laughable. Is this upfront enough for you? The admin has said, he wants it on. Clear for you now? There are obviously cheaters out there. But i believe, our little community here is mostly good folks. Furthermore, I HIGHLY doubt any of our squads would cheat. Some average shmoe of the street might, but really, how is it going to help him against a good, veteran pilot? Its not... I personaly wouldn't use it either way, i like to navigate on my own. It's more fun for me. Hell, i didn't even notice it was on untill Ice brought it up. I didn't even know what it did! LOL Wish i knew about it when i was more of a newbie, heh. Sure for matches, turn it off, your right. Then there is no question. But for pub play it really isnt gonna make much of a difference. :pilotfly:
Ross-impress Posted October 10, 2006 Posted October 10, 2006 F10 mode is like some guys said (it could be) a cheat. Why?? So, the thing is to fly realistic, so !!!! If necessary an awacs will do his job if the server allowed.. So F10 mode is good for guys who will learn virtual flying, so in advanced server not needed!! That's my opinion.. Also it's only a poll.. A little story i've got a copple of days ago (i thought) in the 77th server a flight. I was flying a mig-29 heading enemy. I only saw enemys just in front of me, so what did i do, i look to mapview and saw an su25T on my 3 oclock low. I haven't seen him on my radar, but because i saw him on F10 i changed direction and took him down. Do you think, that's a real and fair fight against the su25T?? No it isn't, the guy did a good job, but because i look the F10 mode i could take him down.. Grtz....Ross..... Configuration: Windows 11 Home/ Intel Core i9-12900F/ RTX 3080 10 GB/ 64GB DDR4-3200/ 2 TB m.2 NVMe/ HP Reverb G2/V2/ Thrustmaster Cougar Hotas/ INSTAGRAM ACCOUNT: @ross_impress • Instagram-foto's en -video's (everything about the real flying world, drone and DCS)
GGTharos Posted October 10, 2006 Posted October 10, 2006 A little story i've got a copple of days ago (i thought) in the 77th server a flight. I was flying a mig-29 heading enemy. I only saw enemys just in front of me, so what did i do, i look to mapview and saw an su25T on my 3 oclock low. I haven't seen him on my radar, but because i saw him on F10 i changed direction and took him down. Do you think, that's a real and fair fight against the su25T??. Yes, it is. Why didn't -he- use F-10 and make sure to stay with his fighters? [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
Cosmonaut Posted October 10, 2006 Posted October 10, 2006 A little story i've got a copple of days ago (i thought) in the 77th server a flight. I was flying a mig-29 heading enemy. I only saw enemys just in front of me, so what did i do, i look to mapview and saw an su25T on my 3 oclock low. I haven't seen him on my radar, but because i saw him on F10 i changed direction and took him down. Do you think, that's a real and fair fight against the su25T?? No it isn't, the guy did a good job, but because i look the F10 mode i could take him down.. Grtz....Ross..... Has any here said to put enemies on F10 view? We are just talking about Your own aircraft and that’s pretty much it. Cozmo. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Minimum effort, maximum satisfaction. CDDS Tutorial Version 3. | Main Screen Mods.
Prophet_169th Posted October 10, 2006 Posted October 10, 2006 I have been on TS when someone logged in and used the map to vector. Even at the request of people in the channel for him to stop, it continued. Sorry, but not everyone joins the TS server, and so not everyone would get the information. If thats not CHEATING, well I dont know what is then.
Guest Cali Posted October 10, 2006 Posted October 10, 2006 Ross, thats part of the game, if the S77th server had "show all planes" then it's ok with me. They are the ones paying for the server not me, and if I don't like it I can go somewhere else. GG, what you said is true, it's only a cheat if no one else can use it. Cosmonaut, good answer, I don't know what we have showing in our server. I think it's just the map but I could be wrong. It would be nice to have AWACS, and if it were up to me I probally wouldn't use a map. Maybe ED can fix this before BS comes out that NO ONE can see any aircraft on map view when no a/c are selected. <---not even the server. Prophet, what server was this in? and in who's ts server? cause if it was yours you could have booted the guy.
Ross-impress Posted October 10, 2006 Posted October 10, 2006 Has any here said to put enemies on F10 view? We are just talking about Your own aircraft and that’s pretty much it. Nobody, so what. Mapview F10 isn't realistic, print the map or kneepad and use this as reference for your plane.. Again, this is MY opinion.. Grtz...Ross... Configuration: Windows 11 Home/ Intel Core i9-12900F/ RTX 3080 10 GB/ 64GB DDR4-3200/ 2 TB m.2 NVMe/ HP Reverb G2/V2/ Thrustmaster Cougar Hotas/ INSTAGRAM ACCOUNT: @ross_impress • Instagram-foto's en -video's (everything about the real flying world, drone and DCS)
Guest Cali Posted October 10, 2006 Posted October 10, 2006 GUYS, I like it as realistic as it can be. Some people like having a little extra in there, how do we really know some of the things are real or not. Why does the 120 suck? <--- just a dumb question But seriously, hopefully ED can fix this with BS. ED Testerd Team...you guys have a voice, tell ED see if it can be done.
Ross-impress Posted October 10, 2006 Posted October 10, 2006 They are the ones paying for the server not me, and if I don't like it I can go somewhere else. Totaly agree, it's only my opinion of mapview F10.. Grtz....Ross.... Configuration: Windows 11 Home/ Intel Core i9-12900F/ RTX 3080 10 GB/ 64GB DDR4-3200/ 2 TB m.2 NVMe/ HP Reverb G2/V2/ Thrustmaster Cougar Hotas/ INSTAGRAM ACCOUNT: @ross_impress • Instagram-foto's en -video's (everything about the real flying world, drone and DCS)
Boneski Posted October 10, 2006 Posted October 10, 2006 Hi Ardillita... You try this... Get in a real fighter and fly it in combat without any comms or datalink... heck... paint the canopy black as well and come back and tell me what you see... (To be honest... In a real jet you could still get some work done) We can then share findings... just in case you did not know... flying in the game space is more unrealistic then flying in real life. Games developers provided you with tools... it's silly not to use them...Now if your version of reality is flying blind as a lone wolf not running with the clan... then you are better then I am... a tip of the hat to you good sir... a tip of the hat... :pilotfly: Now if some one is nice enough to set up a server to let the world ride on then they make p the rules... If you don;t like the rules they setup then don't play on their Box... To me that's just simple... Panties don;t have to get all bunched up over that... But Views and cheating have nothing to do with reality... If you want the truth... that's what combat of any kind is about... getting the upper hand any way you can... the only cheat is cheating death.... When I hear people talk about cheating and even playing field It makes me wonder why are the developers even putting different planes in the game... Why not have everyone fly triangles that are different colours?? People want missiles to have the same PK rates and stuff like that... If you want some version of reality then you want things to be different... when some one has something better you look for ways to exploit where they are weaker... Games are so much harder in certin areas ... True Aircombat is a physical and mental workout... Games... well they can be a pain when you don;t have the tools you are use to... so you use what you have... Claims of cheating is nothing more then an excuse on why you are not the master of the game... Adding weapons and changing tables and how the game works... now that's cheating... views are not. If I had the time to setup a server I would allow all the views... Boneski , print the maps, put them on your knees when you fly FC, and later came back and tell us if it is the same as useing F10 where you can see your aircraft placed oin the map and it´s heading. F10 is not realistic, use the kneeboard and let´s see if you can find your heading as easily as you can with F10 And padlock... well, it help people don´t have trackpoint but... how many peoply use the padlock function to lock things they never really saw? My mission is to fly, fight, and win. o-:|:-o What I do is sometimes get a tin of soup, heat it up, poach an egg in it, serve that with a pork pie sausage roll.
S77th-konkussion Posted October 10, 2006 Posted October 10, 2006 I have been on TS when someone logged in and used the map to vector. Even at the request of people in the channel for him to stop, it continued. Sorry, but not everyone joins the TS server, and so not everyone would get the information. If thats not CHEATING, well I dont know what is then. FYI Prophet- I set the server to "nugget mode" temporarily to attract new blood to the server. It is purely an effort to show new guys that flying online isn't something to fear. Yes- guys that know better are going to abuse the crutches. My opinion on this is simple. If you know better- and you use these crutches to accomplish something that you otherwise wouldn't accomplish - than you're showing us all how unskilled & pathetic you are. Boneski- I am not picking on you, brother. But you apparently want these things turned on all the time. You prefer to fly .. that way. Your call. Your reasoning a few posts above brilliantly demonstrates why the map & externals are disabled in the pro servers. We want you to learn to navigate- not look at a map. We want you to learn to find targets & engage with your sensors, equipment, and your BRAIN. We happen to agree that enabling an EMPTY map serves no purpose but more importantly- it opens up avenues for accusations and other nonsense that we don't need. I hear you guys when you say "no icons make it a plain map". That's not 100% true, and we seek to eliminate ALL discussion about what having it on might mean or not mean. On a normal day-it will be OFF. We are not going to dumb the server down to accomodate the lazy and/ or the lowest skill level. (not directed at Boneski or anyone in particular) We will - from time to time- ease up so that the newest players among us will take the leap. It's meant to alleviate fear & hopefully the exposure to the online world will inspire new guys to learn. Regrettably- while this mode is running- people will abuse it. It would be great if more experienced guys would join up and help out. (as long as the students use teamspeak- screw that typing crap.) I speak only as an admin for the Savage 77th server. No one else. [sIGPIC]http://forums.eagle.ru/attachment.php?attachmentid=43337&d=1287169113[/sIGPIC]
Ross-impress Posted October 10, 2006 Posted October 10, 2006 I thought this all was a poll.. So hopely no bad words trowing to eachother..:huh: Grtz....Ross..... Configuration: Windows 11 Home/ Intel Core i9-12900F/ RTX 3080 10 GB/ 64GB DDR4-3200/ 2 TB m.2 NVMe/ HP Reverb G2/V2/ Thrustmaster Cougar Hotas/ INSTAGRAM ACCOUNT: @ross_impress • Instagram-foto's en -video's (everything about the real flying world, drone and DCS)
Cosmonaut Posted October 10, 2006 Posted October 10, 2006 IMO any form of moving map has got to be more realistic than none at all. The Garmin GPS system looks very similar to the F10 view in LO and that’s good enough to simulate moving map based navigation and SA. To say its unrealistic is just bizarre imo seeing as fighter pilots have much, much more than a simple hand held device to rely on or a printed map. Now I understand that cheating can be a problem and I can see the argument for keeping it off but it seems for some people that the less tools you have for navigation the more realistic your flying experience will be...again this is bizarre. I know most of us here don’t actually need F10 view to navigate or locate targets but for me it adds to the realism and doesn’t take it away, although that’s just my opinion and I have no problems whether servers choose map view or not. Cozmo. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Minimum effort, maximum satisfaction. CDDS Tutorial Version 3. | Main Screen Mods.
Fox_one Posted October 10, 2006 Posted October 10, 2006 Turn it off, I use a printed map anyway, quicker & better imho....
Guest Cali Posted October 10, 2006 Posted October 10, 2006 I knew they would chime in,:D Fox, I agree with the printed map, I myself have the knee maps mod for both US and Russian jets. And that has been working just fine with me for a long time. I don't like pushing a button and being out of my cockpit any longer than I have to be.
Guest IguanaKing Posted October 10, 2006 Posted October 10, 2006 IMO any form of moving map has got to be more realistic than none at all. The Garmin GPS system looks very similar to the F10 view in LO and that’s good enough to simulate moving map based navigation and SA. To say its unrealistic is just bizarre imo seeing as fighter pilots have much, much more than a simple hand held device to rely on or a printed map. It really depends on the aircraft type you are flying in LOMAC. At this point, the only flyable that might have a moving map is the F-15C. The future A-10C will have one, and I'm sure current and future variants of the Russian aircraft...but not the variants in the game. BTW that MX20 is Garmin in name only, they started putting their name on it after buying out UPS Aviation Technologies (formerly known as IIMorrow). Its more than a GPS too, its a full MFD. Heh...just a bit of trivia. :D Not having the external views enabled is just like everything else in the sim, it just takes patience and repetition to learn how to ride the bike without training wheels. :)
169th_Bat Posted October 10, 2006 Posted October 10, 2006 I knew they would chime in,:D Fox, I agree with the printed map, I myself have the knee maps mod for both US and Russian jets. And that has been working just fine with me for a long time. I don't like pushing a button and being out of my cockpit any longer than I have to be. Ah!!! so to that end you do use the F10 view?:doh: Well and truly banged to rights. "Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few". - Sir Winston Churchill 1940.
theGozr Posted October 10, 2006 Posted October 10, 2006 For the fun of it turn Off the waypoints, get your charts up and lets fly. I'm curious do you have all teamSpeak ? I have a Ts server as well. :) Fly it like you stole it..
Guest Cali Posted October 10, 2006 Posted October 10, 2006 Ah!!! so to that end you do use the F10 view?:doh: Well and truly banged to rights. What are you talking about. I never said I use it, if you would have looked at this thread you would have seen that. How many times have I said I don't use F10 view. But you failed to see any of that I guess.
S77th-ReOrdain Posted October 10, 2006 Posted October 10, 2006 F10 mode is like some guys said (it could be) a cheat. Why?? So, the thing is to fly realistic, so !!!! If necessary an awacs will do his job if the server allowed.. So F10 mode is good for guys who will learn virtual flying, so in advanced server not needed!! That's my opinion.. Also it's only a poll.. A little story i've got a copple of days ago (i thought) in the 77th server a flight. I was flying a mig-29 heading enemy. I only saw enemys just in front of me, so what did i do, i look to mapview and saw an su25T on my 3 oclock low. I haven't seen him on my radar, but because i saw him on F10 i changed direction and took him down. Do you think, that's a real and fair fight against the su25T?? No it isn't, the guy did a good job, but because i look the F10 mode i could take him down.. Grtz....Ross..... Wow Ross, pretty amazing! And since you're in the mood to share your opinion, if you didn't think it was a fair fight, do you care to also explain why you took him down? Noob mode was announced on these forums. If you weren't aware of it, that's somewhat understandable, but I guess something made you revert to F10 view. Please, give the inexperienced a break where possible. 1
Cosmonaut Posted October 10, 2006 Posted October 10, 2006 It really depends on the aircraft type you are flying in LOMAC. At this point, the only flyable that might have a moving map is the F-15C. The future A-10C will have one, and I'm sure current and future variants of the Russian aircraft...but not the variants in the game. BTW that MX20 is Garmin in name only, they started putting their name on it after buying out UPS Aviation Technologies (formerly known as IIMorrow). Its more than a GPS too, its a full MFD. Heh...just a bit of trivia. :D Not having the external views enabled is just like everything else in the sim, it just takes patience and repetition to learn how to ride the bike without training wheels. :) Yes of course but you can program the nav aids etc which you cant do in LO.. To be honest I never use F10 for air to air missions, most of the servers I fly in I don’t even know if its active….. I only use it for specific A2G missions when I’m trying to simulate being vectored to an area, town or when I set up a kill box. For me it just feels more realistic to check the map view to make sure I’m over the right town or within the area where I can engage ground targets freely, with out having to always follow a waypoint to an area then start looking for enemy units that are placed a certain distance from the attack waypoints. I bet most of us wouldn’t even need to use a compass to find our way around the map in LO the amount of missions we have flown but it comes down to what ever works online and what ever you feel is realistic. For some they like externals and others like labels but for me I find both of those extremely unrealistic and immersion killers in LO. In FS9 I get to use Garmin GPS 500 and the 295.. as you say they are very powerful nav tools with all kinds of info from flight plans to different classes of airspace .. Didn’t know anything about the company itself though so thanks for the info :) Ps are they giving A10 pilots hand held GPS systems? I don’t know if I read it somewhere or am just getting mixed up with something else. Cozmo. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Minimum effort, maximum satisfaction. CDDS Tutorial Version 3. | Main Screen Mods.
S77th-konkussion Posted October 10, 2006 Posted October 10, 2006 For the fun of it turn Off the waypoints, get your charts up and lets fly. I'm curious do you have all teamSpeak ? I have a Ts server as well. :) pffft.. I don't know what exactly the challenge is supposed to be, but.. OK. Now what? [sIGPIC]http://forums.eagle.ru/attachment.php?attachmentid=43337&d=1287169113[/sIGPIC]
Ardillita Posted October 10, 2006 Posted October 10, 2006 Hi Ardillita... You try this... Get in a real fighter and fly it in combat without any comms or datalink... heck... paint the canopy black as well and come back and tell me what you see... (To be honest... In a real jet you could still get some work done) We can then share findings... just in case you did not know... flying in the game space is more unrealistic then flying in real life. Games developers provided you with tools... it's silly not to use them...Now if your version of reality is flying blind as a lone wolf not running with the clan... then you are better then I am... a tip of the hat to you good sir... a tip of the hat... :pilotfly: Now if some one is nice enough to set up a server to let the world ride on then they make p the rules... If you don;t like the rules they setup then don't play on their Box... To me that's just simple... Panties don;t have to get all bunched up over that... But Views and cheating have nothing to do with reality... If you want the truth... that's what combat of any kind is about... getting the upper hand any way you can... the only cheat is cheating death.... When I hear people talk about cheating and even playing field It makes me wonder why are the developers even putting different planes in the game... Why not have everyone fly triangles that are different colours?? People want missiles to have the same PK rates and stuff like that... If you want some version of reality then you want things to be different... when some one has something better you look for ways to exploit where they are weaker... Games are so much harder in certin areas ... True Aircombat is a physical and mental workout... Games... well they can be a pain when you don;t have the tools you are use to... so you use what you have... Claims of cheating is nothing more then an excuse on why you are not the master of the game... Adding weapons and changing tables and how the game works... now that's cheating... views are not. If I had the time to setup a server I would allow all the views... Sorry, but you can not compare fly in a real fighter with this sim nor any other sim, there are LOT of differences. The point in this thread I think is pretty simple: does F10 improve or reduce the realism of the sim? In real fighter there are kneeboards, right? (i don´t know if any modern one has some LCD showing the map and your exact position and heading as F10 does, but I think none has something like that). So, the F10 can not be called a tool provided by ED, it is and "addon" provided to makes things easier for those people called "gamers", people that are not much interested in the realism. ED and other companies need this gamers to sell it´s sim. I think you will agree that this sim has some features aimed to that kind of players, so F10 is there because of that, not to add realism. If any virtual pilot want to makes things as realistic as posible, F10 is not one of the option you shopuld have activated, and instead you should use maps. And by the way... i didn´t flew in a fighter, instead of that my brother took me 2 times in an old A4 fighter (he was in 4th year of the military academy here in Argentina) and showed me that is posible to fly "blind" just with instruments, with some restrictions that you don´t have in most modern aircrrafts. I did some flights in FC useing the su25 (not the T version) lowering the sight so I couldn´t see the land, looking just the instruments and did some flights, and some landing. I crashed some times, and succeed some more times. So I can say that is COMPLETLY different a real fighter than a sim, but the point here is how real we can make the simulation, and in my opinion, F10 does not help
theGozr Posted October 10, 2006 Posted October 10, 2006 77. ;) Now enjoy the scenery and find your targets that way it's fun and.... be ready to get wooped !!! :D :D Fly it like you stole it..
S77th-ReOrdain Posted October 10, 2006 Posted October 10, 2006 77. ;) Now enjoy the scenery and find your targets that way it's fun and.... be ready to get wooped !!! :D :D Bring it! Anytime you get ready.
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