Drag from the gear...

[Anatoli-Kagari9]

NOTE: Further tests revealled I have done something wrong when I initially tested it...

Has it vanished ?

 

A friend who also used the p51d allerted me to the fact that one of these days he was at an aerobatics server and only noticed he had forgotten to raise the gear when he saw the shadow of his aircraft on the ground.

 

I picked the p51d for a few test flights and indeed their appears to be almost no differrence from flying with or without gear out ? I recall that there was some noticeable drag some versions ago ( ? )

Edited November 25, 2016 by jcomm

[LURKINGBADGER]

What do you mean by feel? a speed difference? or is the plane not nossing down how it should? i would be surprized if there is a bug since they dont touch the mustang at all.

[Anatoli-Kagari9]

Speed, but also pitching moment.

[Zimmerdylan]

Speed, but also pitching moment.

 

 

I agree. I noticed it too.

[LURKINGBADGER]

I agree. I noticed it too.

 

 

I give a try in the afternoon.

[Ala13_ManOWar]

While flying online realism options are set by the server, you know for sure they were correct?

 

 

S!

[humptydumpty]

While flying online realism options are set by the server, you know for sure they were correct?

 

 

S!

 

I use the Aerobatics Online server and that's where i felt no drag when the gear was down and only noticed the gear due to the aircraft shadow when doing a low pass over the runway. I am not sure what settings they use but I think it is set to realistic.

 

I was doing all kinda maneuvers like the when the gear is retracted. The only aircraft that showed the effect of it on the same server is the Mig21.

Edited November 25, 2016 by humptydumpty

[Ala13_ManOWar]

I was doing all kinda maneuvers like the when the gear is retracted. The only aircraft that showed the effect of it on the same server is the Mig21.

Interesting. The question is, does it happen offline? I cannot test myself right now, but I will.

 

 

S!

[humptydumpty]

Interesting. The question is, does it happen offline? I cannot test myself right now, but I will.

 

 

S!

 

No idea about the offline thing as I don't fly offline. But I can check it out later 2nite after work.

[Anatoli-Kagari9]

Good hint that of a possible - simple FM - being used at the server I also made my tests at.

 

It didn't come to my mind that might be the cause... Will try again latter today or tomorrow and report back.

[humptydumpty]

Connected to the Aerobatics Server will once again check if drag is being induced by the LG and then later will try offline but later.

[humptydumpty]

Well did a flight with the LG down it felt the aircraft is flying without any issues , Mani press was 55. I did aileron rolls too.

 

Later one offline.

[Anatoli-Kagari9]

Thx for the Humpty...

 

Still far from my sim PC :-(

[humptydumpty]

Did a test offline and it is the same. I don't find any difference in the behavior of the aircraft.

[Anatoli-Kagari9]

My test offline revealed it seems ok after all.

 

Choosing the default flight around Poti, I took control of the aircraft, trimmed it for level flight and then lowered the gear.

 

When the gear is lowered there is a pronnounced pitch down moment, and if not countered the dive will result in increasing speed that compensates for the drag from the gear.

 

But if you try to maintain your V/S then the speed will start to drop steadily.

 

So, after all, it looks ok to me :-)

[humptydumpty]

Ok, jcomm i will try it again

[Anatoli-Kagari9]

It's a bit like in most gliders - raising the speedbrakes will not increase or decrease your speed, but will certainly increase the descent rate :-)

 

As a simmer only in as far of these powerful ww2 fighters go, I can only compare to the A2A for FSX version of the P51d civil and military versions. On those models taking off and forgetting to raise the gear will certainly give you a very low top speed, and you will not be able to maneuver adequately...

 

Which one is correct from a RL pov, only a p51d pilot can tell. I asked a few years ago about it at the A2A forums, and the p51d pilot who cooperates with A2A, D Henriques, replied that a significant drag resulted from a lowered LG, affecting speed in a way that would certainly be noticeable in maneuvering and just by checking your ASI. Well...

 

Sims...

Edited November 26, 2016 by jcomm

[humptydumpty]

Thanks Jose, i will try this out later 2day.

[Ala13_ManOWar]

It's a bit like in most gliders - raising the speedbrakes will not increase or decrease your speed, but will certainly increase the descent rate :-)

 

As a simmer only in as far of these powerful ww2 fighters go, I can only compare to the A2A for FSX version of the P51d civil and military versions. On those models taking off and forgetting to raise the gear will certainly give you a very low top speed, and you will not be able to maneuver adequately...

 

Which one is correct from a RL pov, only a p51d pilot can tell. I asked a few years ago about it at the A2A forums, and the p51d pilot who cooperates with A2A, D Henriques, replied that a significant drag resulted from a lowered LG, affecting speed in a way that would certainly be noticeable in maneuvering and just by checking your ASI. Well...

 

Sims...

Of course it's noticeable. I used to fly a C172RG in which you could either raise your gear or fly all the time with it lowered (but who knows what's the point on that). The thing is you are restricted to 100KIAS with lowered gear, so cruising is a bit painful as you can usually fly 120KIAS, and you definitely have a constant downward momentum in your controls, although you can get rid of it just trimming, obviously, but even trimmed it's there and you can feel the drag.

 

Last time I flew P-51 in 1.5.5 drag was there, easily noticeable at the moment you lower your gear, a bit like a hit, and same as you lower your gear in C172RG (although you feel the hit in your back, but quite close feeling in the controls). I didn't pay attention in 2.0.4 though, so I can't tell if it is or not. Not impossible something happened as many patches are released these days, but I didn't notice.

 

 

S!

[humptydumpty]

Of course it's noticeable. I used to fly a C172RG in which you could either raise your gear or fly all the time with it lowered (but who knows what's the point on that). The thing is you are restricted to 100KIAS with lowered gear, so cruising is a bit painful as you can usually fly 120KIAS, and you definitely have a constant downward momentum in your controls, although you can get rid of it just trimming, obviously, but even trimmed it's there and you can feel the drag.

 

Last time I flew P-51 in 1.5.5 drag was there, easily noticeable at the moment you lower your gear, a bit like a hit, and same as you lower your gear in C172RG (although you feel the hit in your back, but quite close feeling in the controls). I didn't pay attention in 2.0.4 though, so I can't tell if it is or not. Not impossible something happened as many patches are released these days, but I didn't notice.

 

 

S!

 

But i can't seem to produce that effect , maybe i need to watch properly. I am using 1.5.5 for now NTTR I only use the 15 / A10

[Ala13_ManOWar]

Ok, I've been flying a bit on Nevada, just for test. Even though I don't know why, but it can be related just to weather conditions in the map, may be you're right extra drag and nose down moment when gear is lowered is harder to notice. Hard, but still it is there, you just need to keep your controls in a fixed position and you'll see how nose attitude changes while lowering or rising gear.

 

 

S!

[Zimmerdylan]

Interesting. The question is, does it happen offline? I cannot test myself right now, but I will.

 

 

S!

 

 

That's where I initially discovered it. Offline.

[Anatoli-Kagari9]

Ok, I've been flying a bit on Nevada, just for test. Even though I don't know why, but it can be related just to weather conditions in the map, may be you're right extra drag and nose down moment when gear is lowered is harder to notice. Hard, but still it is there, you just need to keep your controls in a fixed position and you'll see how nose attitude changes while lowering or rising gear.

 

 

S!

 

Yes, it's a very tame effect. I don't recall how it was in previous versions though because it was a long while ago when I compared it to the A2A p51d, and asked at their forums to D Henriques, who explained that the drag should be quite noticeable, in sound, speed and AoA required to fly level... Not the case in the presente iteration of the DCS P51d, I believe... Will test with teh other aircraft when possible.

[Art-J]

The effects are there allright, but how they compare to old versions, I don't know. Just did two test flights (offline) in both 1.5.5 and 2.0.4. Clean config, 80% fuel (somewhat less after a full startup and takeoff), ~5000-5100 ft altitude, 25" of MAP and 2400 RPM. Ambient temp of 17 degrees C on Caucasus map, I think I adjusted it to the same value on Nevada, but if I didn't (not very proficient with mission editor), it was standard "fall" setting of 10 degrees C probably. Trimming for level flight all the time.

 

Results: lowering and raising the gear causes noticeable pitch changes, not as big as caused by flaps, but still. Trimming for level flight again and checking indicated speed, only right off the gauge in cockpit yields: 195 (Nevada) up to 205 (Caucasus) with gear down, 245 (Nevada) up to 250 (Caucasus) with gear up. So ~50-ish mph on average. Seems quite a hefty chunk of speed, should probably be even more at higher power settings (as drag increases with velocity squared), but didn't bother to check that.

 

Just out of curiosity, any of You who owns FSX/P3D might test how big the speed drop in A2A Mustang is for comparison, with the settings as above, but then again, we would have to have some proper reference data of the real thing to draw conclusions about accuracy of our simulation.

Edited November 27, 2016 by Art-J

[humptydumpty]

I'll be honest i can never level out well , it's been years n years of simming but to get the level out is not at possible for me i just can't , so even if i try to level the 51 with the gear it may not be noticeable because i anyway keep going down even after trimming. I can blame it on the stick or blame myself can't say.