Training Missions anouncement

[baltic_dragon]

Please feel free to post the things you think are missing or should be improved in the training. Most of them were prepared while some of the plane systems were not fully finished, so I am sure there is space for improvement.

 

Once I gather your feedback, I will update the training series for Caucasus and will want to port it to NTTR.

[Redglyph]

In mission 3, there are a couple of things that could be confusing:

 

1) Using the RD/TD to set a desired time: it seems to only work when the correct waypoint is selected with PREP. Probably obvious once it becomes a routine, but not said (or I missed it) and I was wondering why there was no "special" indication on the HUD. Quite easy to guess though.

 

2) The next part is to arrive to Kutaisi from the North, the pilot is said:

 

Let's try to approach press 1 or 7 on the INS keypad to enable data input into the left LCD. The input limitation in this case will be obvious - from 0-0-0 to 3-5-9.9; there are four spaces which you have to use.

 

Enter 1-8-0-0 on your keypad and press INS button. Remember that what you enter here is the bearing you will want to use when you arrive at the waypoint.

 

So for instance if you want to approach the waypoint from the east, you will need to enter bearing of 270.0 as effectively you will be flying west.

 

Press the RD button on the PCA. You will notice a new set of cues on your HUD, similar to those displayed during the bombing run. You should follow them in order to arrive from the desired direction.

 

I suppose the knob should still be on RD/TD and waypoint 3 in PREP.

 

I could enter 180.0 degrees, but pressing RD on the PCA didn't show any special indication to get there. I moved a little further from the airfield to make sure I wasn't simply too close, but without success. I also tried with APP, but nothing special either... so I haven't clarified this one :huh:

 

Note: I suppose it's "Let's try to approach Kutaisi from the North. Press 1 or 7...", unless more is missing, including what to press?

And it should be LED, not LCD (but that's from the manual) ;)

 

 

EDIT

 

Ah. Manual pp. 127: "RD: Roue Desirée, desired route. A special navigation mode not available in open beta."

 

Perhaps this explains that?

Edited December 2, 2016 by Redglyph

[baltic_dragon]

Yes, AFAIK the RD is still not implemented. But I went one step ahead and included it in the training :) I will double check with Zeus.

 

As for TD, it has its limitations given by the IP, if you set unrealistic time (less than 0.5 of the time to go shown at current speed or more than 1.5 of it) it won't work neither.

[Redglyph]

Yes, AFAIK the RD is still not implemented. But I went one step ahead and included it in the training :) I will double check with Zeus.

That, or ... you have a non-beta version :lookaround:

 

As for TD, it has its limitations given by the IP, if you set unrealistic time (less than 0.5 of the time to go shown at current speed or more than 1.5 of it) it won't work neither.

 

That was my guess, but so I still believe this instruction was missing, or did I overlook it?

it seems to only work when the correct waypoint is selected with PREP

 

Anyway, nice to see those training missions, because this wasn't particularly easy to follow in the manual.

[baltic_dragon]

Thanks for the PREP thing pointed out - as I said, the training missions were prepared with the unfinished module, so I want to treat them as BETA and gather as much feedback as I can from you. Will not it down as something worth including later.

 

As for TD, the VO and intel is there, all the limitations are given in a mission. Just checked.

[Redglyph]

As for TD, the VO and intel is there, all the limitations are given in a mission. Just checked.

 

It is there, I was talking about the PREP part, sorry for the confusion!

 

It's probably obvious anyway, editing anything on the PCN is related to the PREP side.

 

Not even halfway into these trainings and already learned many interesting new features, very well done! :)

[Redglyph]

It seems that in mission 5, the M-2000's used to test the lock feature tend to get to the deck and crash in the relief, same old AI inability to cope with mountains. In two missions, I couldn't get behind without them crashing first. Perhaps it would be simpler to be able to follow friendly aircraft and not have to worry about this? Or alternatively, to make sure it happens above flat terrain to avoid the AI problem (I hope they'll improve).

 

Not that I would be able to lock, since the echo disappear after a few seconds on the radar (and I don't know why), and I can't get the slew TDC to move at a reasonable speed, it directly jumps from one part of the VTB to the other. If others have the same problems, perhaps it's worth giving some advice in the training mission, but perhaps it's just me.

Edited December 3, 2016 by Redglyph

[spiddx]

TDC slew is fixed in development according to devs, should be ok after the next update.

[Redglyph]

TDC slew is fixed in development according to devs, should be ok after the next update.

Thanks for the info, spiddx!

[BarTzi]

I think the first mission (cold start) is missing info on the audio warning switch, and backup adi switch (usually both are turned when you start the plane), and uncaging of backup adi and adi.

[baltic_dragon]

I think the first mission (cold start) is missing info on the audio warning switch, and backup adi switch (usually both are turned when you start the plane), and uncaging of backup adi and adi.

 

Yes, good point. The uncaging was added after the mission was done. Will include it in first update, thanks!

[Redglyph]

OK, maybe this AI mountain problem will sort itself out, that's what we all hope ;)

 

Another thing that may interest you for the training 9, for the gun K1/K2, has apparently changed (no "K1"/"K2" and the current "K2" should be "S"): https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=2971749

[metzger]

In M10 I got confused and struggle to hit the target.

When he says to press BAD button to check HSI after configuring offset ponts etc The thin needle and bme is suppose to show the offset point but it does not happen it shows copletely different direction and does not change at all after depressing the BAD.

Also it says to update the position of the IP on the center of the runway and after the first update a nav cue will appear on the hud but, nothig is changed on the hud after the update. The "wings" appeared after overflying the IP.

He says not to press the val button before finishing the bomb run but AFAIK to update I need to press the val button ?! And why I should not press it ?

And finaly after I finish the bomb run I cant do a second pass cause offset point I created becomes WP2 and IP dssapears.

 

May be I do something wrong but I tried it 4-5 times with the same result.

[baltic_dragon]

I will have to check it, perhaps it is still WIP, as the instructions are in line with what is in the manual.

 

I am pretty sure you should not press the VAL button - now not certain here, but it might think you want to update your INS. I tried it and it worked without validating.

 

Any further feedback on M10 most welcome, I am happy to update it as needed.

[Azrayen]

@metzger,

 

BAD is shown by the large needle. The thin needle only ever shows the VOR/ILS. As far as I remember the manual was OK with that (am at work, can't check).

 

You don't press VAL immediately because when using IP mode your position update is a temporary one.

If, after the bombing run, you want to turn this temporary update to a definitive one, then click VAL. If not, then click REC.

 

You're not really supposed to make more than one bombing run with this (once you've bombed once, the ennemy will be in full alert=too risky).

Plus there is a DCS bug ATM that only allows one position update per waypoint.

Edited December 5, 2016 by Azrayen

[Redglyph]

I will have to check it, perhaps it is still WIP, as the instructions are in line with what is in the manual.

 

I am pretty sure you should not press the VAL button - now not certain here, but it might think you want to update your INS. I tried it and it worked without validating.

 

Any further feedback on M10 most welcome, I am happy to update it as needed.

 

 

Lots of messages for you ;) Not sure you've seen this one, something else that must have changed since training mission 9 was wroten, might confuse the poor cadet:

 

Another thing that may interest you for the training 9, for the gun K1/K2, has apparently changed (no "K1"/"K2" and the current "K2" should be "S"): https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=2971749

[jojo]

In mission 3, there are a couple of things that could be confusing:

 

1) Using the RD/TD to set a desired time: it seems to only work when the correct waypoint is selected with PREP. Probably obvious once it becomes a routine, but not said (or I missed it) and I was wondering why there was no "special" indication on the HUD. Quite easy to guess though.

 

2) The next part is to arrive to Kutaisi from the North, the pilot is said:

 

Let's try to approach press 1 or 7 on the INS keypad to enable data input into the left LCD. The input limitation in this case will be obvious - from 0-0-0 to 3-5-9.9; there are four spaces which you have to use.

 

Enter 1-8-0-0 on your keypad and press INS button. Remember that what you enter here is the bearing you will want to use when you arrive at the waypoint.

 

So for instance if you want to approach the waypoint from the east, you will need to enter bearing of 270.0 as effectively you will be flying west.

 

Press the RD button on the PCA. You will notice a new set of cues on your HUD, similar to those displayed during the bombing run. You should follow them in order to arrive from the desired direction.

 

I suppose the knob should still be on RD/TD and waypoint 3 in PREP.

 

I could enter 180.0 degrees, but pressing RD on the PCA didn't show any special indication to get there. I moved a little further from the airfield to make sure I wasn't simply too close, but without success. I also tried with APP, but nothing special either... so I haven't clarified this one :huh:

 

Note: I suppose it's "Let's try to approach Kutaisi from the North. Press 1 or 7...", unless more is missing, including what to press?

And it should be LED, not LCD (but that's from the manual) ;)

 

 

EDIT

 

Ah. Manual pp. 127: "RD: Roue Desirée, desired route. A special navigation mode not available in open beta."

 

Perhaps this explains that?

 

Maybe it's ok, but reading this I think some precision may be necessary.

 

- select the waypoint to edit in PREP (let's say WP 3)

- set RD with rotary on RD/ TD and input data in the correct window (or LCD display, no LED display in the 80' :smilewink:)

- when you want to use it, set DEST = 3

- only then you can choose to use RD on PCA.

 

HSI and HUD show DEST data, PCA select DEST options.

[baltic_dragon]

Lots of messages for you ;) Not sure you've seen this one, something else that must have changed since training mission 9 was wroten, might confuse the poor cadet:

 

Thanks! Yeah, noticed that recently. The joys of building mission for an unfinished module. But if I did it differently you would have to wait for another few months for the campaign and training :music_whistling:

[Redglyph]

Thanks! Yeah, noticed that recently. The joys of building mission for an unfinished module. But if I did it differently you would have to wait for another few months for the campaign and training :music_whistling:

 

Standing on the bleeding edge of technology hurts, sometimes :D

But more seriously, I'm pretty sure everyone is very glad to have those training and campaign missions now and not in a few months! :)

[metzger]

Standing on the bleeding edge of technology hurts, sometimes :D

But more seriously, I'm pretty sure everyone is very glad to have those training and campaign missions now and not in a few months! :)

 

Absolutley. They are of a huge help it does not metter some details are not working yet.

I find the manual not detail enough and the training missions helped me alot to understand some procedures and systems.

[baltic_dragon]

Hello folks,

 

Just an update on training missions (mainly mission 1) - I am about to get to upgrading it, taking into account all your suggestions as well as my recent experience.

 

I got TrackIR 5 and M-2000C for my dad for Christmas and just sat with him as he was going through mission 1 - as someone who had no previous experience with DCS. Apart from noticing that the last patch somehow removed the first welcome audio message, I also noticed that one big problem for him were the disappearing text instructions - so I intend to keep them on screen for as long as all the steps are done OR the Space Bar is pressed.

 

So stay tuned, I hope to have this and other training missions updated sometime early 2017 :)

[Redglyph]

Yeah sometimes I'm distracted and miss bits of text instructions ;) A repeat should be part of the comm menu, it's probably on the DCS wishlist for a while.

 

It's funny you mention the disappearing text, earlier today I was toying a little bit with a very simple function below, that adds a repeat feature without having to complicate the flow logic.

 

 

 

-- message history
past_outText = {}
past_outText_id = 0
past_outText_delta = 0

-- shows a text for some delay (ogg and group are not implemented)
-- this is the function to use in trigger actions, with "DO SCRIPT" instead of "MESSAGE TO GROUP"
function showText(s, delay, group, ogg)
   trigger.action.outText(s, delay)
   past_outText_id = past_outText_id + 1
   past_outText[past_outText_id] = { text=s, delay=delay }
end

-- shows an older message at t-delta (1 = last, 2 = penultimate, ...)
function showPastText(delta)
   if (past_outText_id > 0) and (past_outText_id - delta + 1 > 0) then
       local i = past_outText_id - delta + 1
       trigger.action.outText(past_outText[i].text, past_outText[i].delay)
   end
end

-- goes back in history
function cmdPrevMsg()
   if past_outText_id then
       if past_outText_delta > past_outText_id then
           past_outText_delta = 0            
       else
           past_outText_delta = past_outText_delta + 1
           showPastText(past_outText_delta)
       end
   end
end

-- shows the last message again
function cmdLastMsg()
   past_outText_delta = 0
   cmdPrevMsg(past_outText_delta)
end

missionCommands.addCommand("Show me the last message", nil, cmdLastMsg, nil)
missionCommands.addCommand("Show me the previous message", nil, cmdPrevMsg, nil)

 

 

 

I then set out to check a simpler way to use it in actions than using "DO SCRIPT", and looked at the mission files. I first thought that simply replacing the 'a_out_text_delay_g' in the mission.trig.actions[] with 'showText' would do the trick, but apparently those are not used when running a mission :huh: So it's apparently the part in mission.trigrules that is used both in the ME (to easily get the parms back) and when the mission is running.

 

Weird. Perhaps I'll do a script to modify all the stuff automatically to integrate this repeat feature in any mission post-ME. I'm posting that as-is in case you're interested, as you see it's not finished and I'm not convinced yet it's worth pursuing ;)

[baltic_dragon]

Hey Redglyph, sorry it took so long to respond.

 

I just finished updating the missions using a very simple method - setting most of the instructions where you are required to do something and then progress by using SPACE BAR to 300 seconds.

 

That way players will have more than enough time to do what they need to and then when they move on, the old text will disappear.

 

The script you worked on looks promising, though (shame to admit) I know nothing about scripting and I never use them (in the whole campaign there is only one, and I used it as it was the only way to lase the target in M13)... if you find that it is working well and easy to use, I'd be more than happy to incorporate it in the future.

[Redglyph]

I don't have much experience in scripting, so I'm not entirely sure how it holds when DCS is updated. Not that I would expect it to break entirely, and after all it's true of any mission.

 

When/if I get something that looks easy to use I'll let you know (and probably post that somewhere in the mods section as well).