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Challenge Campaign Dive-Bombing Mission 18 - is this right?!


Istari6
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I'd been having a blast working through the Challenge Campaign for the P-51D... at least until I hit these ZU-23 opposed missions. I managed to get through the HVAR rocket missions (with a number of deaths), but now I'm just feeling increasingly exasperated at the degree of difficulty in the first ZU-23 dive-bombing mission #18.

 

I practiced over and over on the Training mission until I'd developed a reasonably reliable method of dive bombing. The problem is that my technique requires at least a few seconds of stability in the dive to line up the target before releasing and pulling through. If I stay steady for more than 2 seconds, the ZU-23s are shredding me every single time, particularly that one AA emplacement right next to the trucks firing upwards with almost no deflection.

 

If I try to jink steadily in the dive to avoid getting hit, it ends up throwing accuracy all to hell. So after dying a number of times, I reverted to flying around the ZU-23 emplacements jinking until they ran out of ammo. Then I setup for a textbook dive bombing attack, and put a 500lb bomb <20 yards away from the fuel truck (see attached screenshot).

 

It still didn't blow up (!). And yes, the bomb was armed.

 

At this point I'm feeling pretty frustrated with this campaign. Did something change in either the accuracy of the ZU-23s or the modeling of bomb blast effects between when these missions were created back in 2012-2013 and now? Seems crazy that this was the intended difficulty for the pilot, needing to put a 500lb bomb directly ONTO the fuel truck while opposed by 3-4 ZU-23 emplacements.

 

Is anyone aware of changes in AA or bomb blast modeling that would explain why this mission feels so ridiculous in 2016? I can't explain why a 500lb bomb wouldn't blow away a truck when landing right next to it.

 

Is there a way to edit the campaign file to skip these dive bombing missions?

2016-12-26_13-35-27.thumb.jpg.d774bc39fe2bd41f27904a57e7acdeef.jpg


Edited by Istari6
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Soo I also always had difficulties with this mission. The bomb ammunition is very limited, if you have bad luck you need to do it all over again.

I'd say I'm pretty experienced at dive bombing. But well, this is not an accurate A-10 bombing platform, it's a P-51D. It's common to not hit perfectly with those bombs.

 

You may just edit the mission to give you unlimited bombs or - which I did - give you some gun ammunition. If you personally feel experienced enough at bombing, just go ahead. Not all those missions still have a good design - after all those updates and damage tweaks.

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Thanks Zabuza. I'm new to DCS, didn't realize I could go in and edit the Missions directly to affect the Campaign. I'll get started on learning how to do that.

 

Is there any way of checking on the values used to model the bombs somewhere in the data files? I'm really surprised at the lack of effect of the 500 lb bombs on these soft-skinned vehicles. Seems very counterintuitive, but maybe the AN264 (can't remember the exact designation for the type carried by the P-51) used a delay fuse rather than an quick fuse. One explanation for why bombs are having so little effect on objects around them.

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Soo I also always had difficulties with this mission. The bomb ammunition is very limited, if you have bad luck you need to do it all over again.

I'd say I'm pretty experienced at dive bombing. But well, this is not an accurate A-10 bombing platform, it's a P-51D. It's common to not hit perfectly with those bombs.

 

You may just edit the mission to give you unlimited bombs or - which I did - give you some gun ammunition. If you personally feel experienced enough at bombing, just go ahead. Not all those missions still have a good design - after all those updates and damage tweaks.

 

Its not about that. Look at the impact point and blast radius. You can destroy a truck with single .50cal AP to the wheel but 500lb bomb does nothing blueing up 1m from it.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]In 21st century there is only war and ponies.

 

My experience: Jane's attack squadron, IL2 for couple of years, War Thunder and DCS.

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The 500lb bombs the P-51D in DCS only carry on-impact fusees. Only the HVAR have a delay setting.

 

I never completed all the training missions. I stopped after the climb-over-the-mountain mission, because it was broken, and was never fixed, nor was there any indication ED was interested in fixing it, which killed my interest.

 

I have no idea why, but I was later told, to try the mission stand-alone, and low-and-behold, it worked normally. So that would be one suggestion. See if there is any difference running the mission simply from the single player mission menu.

 

A while ago, out of a fit of boredom I started trying the Putting-it-All-Together2 mission.

 

Goals:

1. kill truck convoy, before it exits the town.

2. Bomb and destroy a bridge.

3. Kill 2nd truck convoy, before it crosses the bridge from 2.

4. Kill 2 Hinde helos entering the valley.

 

You had 2 500lb bombs, 6 HVAR's, and a full compliment of mg munition, and a wingman with the same loadout, but only enough fuel to be on target for about 20 minutes.

 

Things I Learned From that Mission

- The mission text said you needed the bombs to destroy the bridge. This is wrong. A 5in HVAR set to delayed detonation, which equals target penetration, will kill the bridge as will.

- Trying to strafe a covoy while 4 emplaced ZU-23 guns spread out through the town, will shred you if you ignore them.

- Coordinate your attacks with your wingman so spread the attention the AAA's give you in half during each stafing run.

- If you stafe the convoy from fairly high altitude, it will leave the road and seek protection for a while, which buys you time.

- Trying to strafe up the narrow valley is suicide.

- Trying to strafe from over the steep sides of the valley with 2 500lb bombs and 6 HVAR doesn't work well. You're too heavy. Plus you're really using using up a lot of fuel slepping aorund the those bombs.

- Each convoy has 1 mobile ZU-23 and one BMP; you can only kill the BMP with a bomb or HVAR (at least a very close hit.

 

Solutions:

- Let your wingman use his bombs on the AAA, he does a level bombing run from so hight, the ZU-23's can't hit him.

- After forcing the town-convoy from the road, bomb the bridge, or use the bombs on the ZU's, but get rig of them ASAP.

- Save 4 HVAR's for the BMP's, 2 each, to be safe.

 

Is this really what the author intended? "Frankly my dear, I don't give a damn".

 

Try what works best for you, as long as you complete all the mission goals. Drop the bombs on the ZU if you want, and strafe the trucks.


Edited by Captain Orso

When you hit the wrong button on take-off

hwl7xqL.gif

System Specs.

Spoiler
System board: MSI X99A GAMING 9 ACK Memory: 16GB DDR4-3000 G.Skill Ripjaw System disk: Samsung SSD 970 EVO Plus 1TB
CPU: Intel Core i7-5820K @ 3800MHz PSU: Corsair AX860i PSU Monitor: ASUS MG279Q, 27"
CPU cooling: Noctua NH-D15 Graphics card: Zotac Nvidia GeForce GTX 1080 Ti Amp! Extreme VR: Oculus Rift CV1
 
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Thanks Zabuza. I'm new to DCS, didn't realize I could go in and edit the Missions directly to affect the Campaign. I'll get started on learning how to do that.

The mission itself is located in the DCS installation directory. Just go to DCS/Mods/aircrafts/P-51D/Campaigns or something like this (sry I'm currently mobile). Just open this mission file inside the mission editor of DCS. Edit and save it, then retry the mission.

 

You can also play the missions outside of the campaign by directly opening the mission files. By that you can also skip parts of the campaign if you're stuck or something similar.

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Captain Orso - wow. That mission sounds ridiculously hard given the limited ordnance you're carrying on the Mustang. Impressive that you were able to successfully complete it, but agree it's hard to figure out what the designer was thinking. What I was enjoying in the early part of the Challenge Campaign was how the missions tested your training skills but still felt moderately realistic (e.g. the cross-country navigation mission). These later missions just seem sadistic :<.

 

Good to have confirmation that the 500 lb bombs are on impact fusing, which leads me to think there's some bug in the mission or in the general code in their modeling since they're acting like practice rounds (I've checked arming switches several times now).

 

Zabuza - thanks, I found the missions and edited as you suggested. Once I had HVARs and a load of .50cal, I was able to get past both this mission and the next one. Unfortunately, I've hit a bug in the "Unarmed Helicopter" mission where I've shot both Mi-26s down 4-5 times, and the success flag never flips.

 

At this point I'm giving up on the campaign and I'll fly the "best of" missions remaining through the Missions menu. Just finished off the two Mi-24 Hinds (1st attempt they gunned me but 2nd attempt I kept high with plunging passes), and had a 15-20 min long (and very satisfying) dogfight 1-v-1 against the other P-51D.

 

Thanks to you both for the replies.

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LOL well, it took me about 30-40 tries until I figured out what works and what doesn't :D

 

The good thing about it though, those are lessons that apply everywhere :thumbup:

 

Also, with missions with multiple goals, it forces you to consider your load-out, and whether you can change up the order in which you do things to better fit the time available and payload.

 

It also forced me to learn to command a wingman, get him to attack the AAA I wanted him to attack, by getting him to follow me to a starting position and then ordering him to attack AAA ---he will attack the closest enemy unit--- and to time his attack with my own to confound the enemy's fire concentration.

When you hit the wrong button on take-off

hwl7xqL.gif

System Specs.

Spoiler
System board: MSI X99A GAMING 9 ACK Memory: 16GB DDR4-3000 G.Skill Ripjaw System disk: Samsung SSD 970 EVO Plus 1TB
CPU: Intel Core i7-5820K @ 3800MHz PSU: Corsair AX860i PSU Monitor: ASUS MG279Q, 27"
CPU cooling: Noctua NH-D15 Graphics card: Zotac Nvidia GeForce GTX 1080 Ti Amp! Extreme VR: Oculus Rift CV1
 
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Relative inefficiency of dumb bombs is just a general "feature" of this old game code - it doesn't simulate any shrapnel damage, while blast damage modelling is simplified and leaves a lot to be desired. Whether this aspect of the game is going to be updated anytime soon remains to be seen. For now, You just get used to it and practice to drop bombs closer :D (or search for community mods, which increase blast damage, though I don't know if any have been made for 500 pounders).


Edited by Art-J

i7 9700K @ stock speed, single GTX1070, 32 gigs of RAM, TH Warthog, MFG Crosswind, Win10.

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LOL. It would have taken me at least 30-40 tries to figure out how to do what you did. Controlling my wingman is still on my list of to dos. I've been having a great time flying the "Red Rover" mission, but the wingman there doesn't seem to respond to any commands even though he's flying along with me. So clearly there's something here I haven't figured out, but I need his help once it's me against two P-51Ds.

 

Given the lethality of the ZU-23s if I'm not jinking, I hope the wingman AI can handle them or at least keep them occupied without getting immediately blown away.

 

Art-J - relieved to hear this is a known issue with GP bombs. Given the fidelity of the simulation in other areas, I was dumbfounded at the ineffectiveness of my bombs. Seems like a big oversight in the simulation given the focus on ground-pounders like the Su-25 and A-10, but perhaps it's only certain kinds of HE ordnance. I'll go search for those community mods to see if they can help.

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  • 5 years later...

So, might seem odd that I'm bumping such an old thread, but I wanted to share something, in case anyone else came here for solutions like I have.

So, I've been working my way through the P-51 Challenge campaign and I got stuck on mission 18; today I did some searching to see if anyone has devised a technique. Much to my dismay I find everyone saying you either skip this mission or use cheats. Like many, I was getting so close, but not quite doing it...

Well, I was determined and wanted to have a few more goes before I skipped it. Just now, I successfully hit the refueller, burning all but two of the trucks. Dropped the second bomb on another truck, leaving me with one last truck and no weapons... Guess I have nothing to lose if I kamikaze, right? Turns out, that wins the mission!

You have to score a direct hit on the truck - you can't just crash into the ground two inches away, you have to crash INTO the truck. But get it right, you will have the camera panning away from a big explosion with a voice saying; 'Well done, the vehicles have all been destroyed. You may end the mission now.' I have just ended the mission and am now starting mission 19. :)

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