A few more weapon choices required for NATO fighters flyables please?

[Pilotasso]

For some time, I have been feeling the lack of choices for the F-15 versus all other russian made aircraft.

 

Mig-29 and both Su-27/33 have a wide array of missiles avaiable to them while NATO does not. If you list each of the russian missiles you will see half of them without any western conterpart. Not that they dont exist, but rather they have been ommited.

 

In my view theres no equivalent to the AA-11 for example. The AIM-9 is matched (unrealisticaly close) to the R-60. For F-15 theres no better choice for an IR missile. Ironicaly ED decided to add a worse missile for BS, the AIM-9P. The only way to closen the gap was to add the Rafael's Python 4 (or/and python 3). It falls within LOMAC timeframe, and since the Mirage 2000 is allowed to have the mica why not the Python 4? (remenber theres a python 5) Currently LOMAC NATO has realy no effective IR missiles, nor will this change with the "new" sidwinder.

 

Also there should be a differentiation between Israels F-15 and US F-15 in this game for different weapon choices much like the difference between the Mig-29G/A/S.

 

It would be a good Idea to add Israels derby too for that matter. It is merely there to fill the WVR/BVR gap. ANd russian aircraft have plenty missiles for this arena.

 

To enrich the game further we could even add the japanese F-15J, making it different from the other 2 variants by the AA missile load only. Japanese AAM-x series would be a very interesting addition.

 

IF the community could squeeze these new missiles for black shark would it be possible?

[D-Scythe]

Instead of adding new missiles that are going to suffer from the same problems as the original ones, why not fix the original weapons first?

[Kuky]

why not both???

[Pilotasso]

I agree that the AIM-9 sucks just like the 120. The sidewinders range is HALF of that of the R-73??? in lock on it says 8km, I know for sure that that is not the case.

 

Quoted range for R-73 is 30km, for AIM-9 is 9 miles both under optimum conditions (usualy standadized as head on at 30000ft mach 0.9 for both planes), ED interprets this as 8km O.o

 

There was this fight one day, one guy fired 4 AIM-9's at my six, I was descending and he was like what seemed under 1 mile behind me ( was watching him over the shoulder). All his sidwinders couldnt keep up (descending remenber?) as I kept pitchin hard and leveling out I saw the sidwinders that were nearly flying formation with me, just disapearing under my nozzles and I never got hit. In shear puzzlement he asked how the hell I had evaded. I replied "I didnt, they fell short and I knew they would".

 

Instead of adding new missiles that are going to suffer from the same problems as the original ones, why not fix the original weapons first?

 

Fixing missiles PK is as easy as adjusting their chaff and clutter , and/or drag multipliers.

 

Im talking about weapons with different evelopes. Besides I dont believe ED is going to give in on the Mile--->Km "missunderstanding" ;)

[LaRata]

Hello :

 

Some problem here for Me will be the Time Frame for the Game is Not to much defined ? Future , Pass , Actual ?

 

ED put 89` avionics in Russ Planes and what avionics we have for the US site ? We do not not have avanced AIM-9X for the F-15C because we are in the Cold War era ... Remember that in the 80`s Russia have the R-73 classified ... and the AIM-9X are not operational until Pass the 2000.

 

I love the Russ Avionics. This is the most real avionics we have for Russ planes but this avionics are not for the present day...We are in 2006! The Su-27 have more avanced avionics and missiles than the 89`. We need a new game for actual time. More avanced Russ and NATO planes and weapons.

 

Some notes for Lock-On...Whe have the Su-22, but we do not have the A-6 , Mig-21. Were is the SAM-3 and SAM-2 ? We have the Su-34, nice but were is the Su-30MKI ? or other avaced SU-27. The Su-30MKI are in service before the SU-34.

 

Thanks

LaRata

[Pilotasso]

Note that I did not mention the AIM-9x. I think for now it should be kept out or else everybody will start crying out for other late gen missiles too.

 

This is how I intended to suggest missile load on F-15's

 

F-15C (US) AIM-9P, AIM-9M, AIM-7M, AIM-120B, AIM-120C

F-15C (israel) AIM-9P. AIM-9M, Pyhton3, Python4, AIM-7M, Derby, AIM-120B

F-15J (japan) AIM-9P, AIM-9M, AAM-x series

 

Offering the player with different envelopes for maximum efectiveness at different ranges. It would be cool to increase dissimilarity of AA combat.

[GGTharos]

According to minizap the 9M and 73RMD have very similar range ... of course minizap doesn't actually model different drag coefficients for those missiles, so there might be some differences - plus I know that sidewinder uses bang-bang navigation (or at least early sidewinders used to), I don't know if R-73 does the same or if it uses proportional deflection (this would account for a significant difference in range on 'straight' shots)

 

Once WAFM is in, I think we'll see some more interesting behaviors from these weapons.

 

Currently sidewinders are too easy to dodge (actually any weapon fired tail-on against a supersonic aircraft is far too easy to dodge ... I think this might be a control update problem)

[Kuky]

I think when they quote range they are reffering to absolute maximum range a missile can travel in a straight line... I mean 30km with R-73 and it'll lose so much energy even just flying straight, let alone track a high manoeuvering (I hate to spell this word because I always forget how to spell it)... target.

[pschelchshorn]

Hello :

 

Some problem here for Me will be the Time Frame for the Game is Not to much defined ? Future , Pass , Actual ?

 

ED put 89` avionics in Russ Planes and what avionics we have for the US site ? We do not not have avanced AIM-9X for the F-15C because we are in the Cold War era ... Remember that in the 80`s Russia have the R-73 classified ... and the AIM-9X are not operational until Pass the 2000.

 

I love the Russ Avionics. This is the most real avionics we have for Russ planes but this avionics are not for the present day...We are in 2006! The Su-27 have more avanced avionics and missiles than the 89`. We need a new game for actual time. More avanced Russ and NATO planes and weapons.

 

Some notes for Lock-On...Whe have the Su-22, but we do not have the A-6 , Mig-21. Were is the SAM-3 and SAM-2 ? We have the Su-34, nice but were is the Su-30MKI ? or other avaced SU-27. The Su-30MKI are in service before the SU-34.

 

Thanks

LaRata

 

Its not 1989. The(West) German Airforce(as is in the game) for example did not have the MiG29 in operation until 1990-1992.(Mere estimate!!! but definately after the end of the cold war!!!!). The whole LOMAC storyline is biased.

 

 

Flip

[pschelchshorn]

I found the data again, remember, we are talking about the JG73 MiG29 aircraft (as is the only luftwaffe mig squadron and was based at Laage, its CORRECTLY displayed on the Lomac MiG29 of the Luftwaffe with the correct markings!)

 

"The East German JG3 took delivery of its first MiG-29 in 1988, and by 4 October 1990 had 24 on strength, equipping two squadrons. A follow-on batch were on order, but were never delivered. With the re-unification JG3 became Evaluation Wing 29 on 1 April 1991. On 25 July 1991 the decision was taken to keep the aircraft and integrate them into the NATO air defence structure. JG73 was activated in June 1993, and the MiG-29s assumed a National (Day Only) QRA(l) commitment over the former East Germany. The MiG-29s moved to Laage in December 1993 and on 1 February 1994 the unit gained a NATO QRA(l) commitment. The two aircraft on QRA were assigned to NATO, while the rest were assigned to national tasking. All will be NATO assigned when the F-4s move to Laage to complete the wing." Source:http://www.aeronautics.ru/mig29site2.htm

 

 

 

[Pilotasso]

I think when they quote range they are reffering to absolute maximum range a missile can travel in a straight line... I mean 30km with R-73 and it'll lose so much energy even just flying straight, let alone track a high manoeuvering (I hate to spell this word because I always forget how to spell it)... target.

 

 

You obviouly never compared the 2. The R-73 will easely reach any traget from most aspect angles at 10 km, unless hes particularly evasive (BTW the R-73 is too fast and alot less manueverable than it should) the AIM-9 falls short above 2 miles. On rear aspect the guns has more range!!!! o.O

 

Currently the impression I got is that the R-73 has 3 times the range of the 9. IRL the R-73 uses its bigger mass to use its inertia to travel further but the difference is not nearly as big as it is in this game.

 

Anyway this can be fixed by drag factors. What I intend here is not to compensate the Sidwinders range by the use of other missiles. The proposal here is to add more missiles for exploring different envelopes. So each pilot could choose his load according to his skills.

 

Currently theres no toher choice but to use AMRAAM's BVR and replace the Sidwinder by sparrow as a dogfighting missile.

[Solidburn]

Can it be taken that the WAFM will be available (when ready of course) as a d/l-able patch? I say this only because it might help B-S development/release.

[Force_Feedback]

That's because there is no drag moddeling in lomac, or inertia. The missiles slow down too much when flying without big steering corrections.

9nm? is that ballistically? :lol:

[Kula66]

For some time, I have been feeling the lack of choices for the F-15 versus all other russian made aircraft.

 

I'd rather have the few missiles we have modelled correctly - rather the current dumb weapons!

 

The 'winder has a great REAL LIFE combat record ... is this reflected? Sort of.

But the 120 Slammer! Well, its all been said before ...

 

Lets not have more stuff lacking realism, just spend the time modelling the current inventory better! I don't want a Derby thats just a 120 with a new skin!

[Ardillita]

Yes, there would be a lot , but really a lot of people happy if some of the actual "problems" would be fixed in the BS release. And also it would be a great think for LC since improveing actual things would bring people a sim with all the potential LO can have and more, besides the k50 heli