R-27EA (AE) on Su-27

[Tompax]

Yeah, that's me... I have a thing for french jets, and that site was kinda a revelation for me (although, many links are still broken, some galleries are under construction etc.)...

 

Thank you for your insight... I was not certain about that Super 530D, but now it's clear. Good thing that you posted it over on their forum, it would be nice if more english-speaking people posted there. From what I gathered, the French crowd posts mostly in the french-speaking part...

[Guest IguanaKing]

The more experience I get with French aircraft, the more I'm actually starting to like them. I work on a few different models of Dassault and Socata aircraft, but most of my French aircraft experience is on Aerospatiale helicopters. I'm starting to believe that the Aerospatiale engineers actually started out as technicians, because they are VERY maintenance friendly. Need to work on a system under the floor in an AS355? Easy...the belly drops onto suspension cables with less than 30 seconds of work. :D

 

 

Heh...back on topic though. It seems as if Pilotasso's post about rocket motors has suddenly got everybody looking for rocket motors...on a...rocket. Sheesh...what a NATO fanboi! :smilewink:

[Force_Feedback]

Ok, the missiles on the su-27 in the foreground are 'models', which resemble the shape, but not the drag and weight of a real, in this case, R-27R. You can see the bolting points of the rear fins (small rectangular shape), live missiles don't have this, as the fins are all smooth, without any rivets/bolts to hold them down. Also, the front fins are made out of titanium and it is prohibited by the manufacturer to paint those due to balancing and heat dissipation. The missiles that have black stripes are dummies, not to be confused with the white models, these an accurate weight and weight distribution inside them, and have slightly more refined 'control surfaces', optimised to create about as much drag as a real R-27.

Sorry, but those white missiles are models, usually made out of wood for some R-73s, though I don't know what the r-27 models are made of, they weigh very little in armament terms. I'll try finding a pic of a real dummy R-27.

 

OK, here are the pics of a REAL R-27R, which is disarmed and cut open for show purposes. Wee, now that's fun, ain't it? Pay attention to all the parts that are sticking out... No fat bolts and screws on this one ;)

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v116/force_Feedback/DSC02463.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v116/force_Feedback/DSC02453.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v116/force_Feedback/DSC02451.jpg

 

Oh, take a look at the rocket nozzle, it's red, like..., not like, it's the real thing, deal with it.

[4c Hajduk Veljko]

He, he, he ... I am finding R-27A (AE, EA) everywhere! Take a look of this photograph:

http://img.phoenixtv.com/image20010518/79658517920743424/279303.jpg

[GGTharos]

I see more model and training missiles ... :)

 

The T's look like the real deal, though.

[Force_Feedback]

Grr, why can't we get a fine, crisp 6 mpixel photo instead of thumbnails of analogue photos. I can barely see what it is that is hanging under that su.

 

Ooh, real R-77 near public, omg, explosion danger, omg!!!

http://www.foxbat.ru/maks/maks2005/mikoyan/index.php?picid=mikoyan027

 

Ooh, real R-73

http://www.foxbat.ru/maks/maks2005/sukhoi/index.php?picid=sukhoi045

 

 

Nothing personal, just to show that russians have both dummies, models and captive trainers

[4c Hajduk Veljko]

I see more model and training missiles ... :)

Training missiles have black stripes right?

I can show you R-27A (AE, EA) training missile. Do you want to see it? :thumbup:

[Guest IguanaKing]

What's with the shield on the tail in that pic? That almost looks like an ACC shield to me.

[GGTharos]

Training missiles have black stripes right?

I can show you R-27A (AE, EA) training missile. Do you want to see it? :thumbup:

 

 

Read FF's post. Apparently the all-white missiles and black-striped missiles are nothing but mock-ups, unless I misunderstood something.

 

And yes, go ahead ;)

[4c Hajduk Veljko]

Dare I ask what the end-point of this little obsession is? If you are so desperate to have this non existent missile on your plane- add it. Just go play with yourself, and enjoy your little fantasy in the scintillating world of single player.

Greetings Konkussion,

Obsession is not the right word to describe enthusiasm about military aviation. I just love airplanes, specially military airplanes. And even more, I love Lock On. I always wanted to pilot one of those incredible machines.

 

Nevertheless, I build and fly RC airplanes. Currently I am working on Yak-54. With digital servos, redundant power supply system, fully programmable 9ch radio, that all together will cost me about $3000. I also buy (and read) books about modern military airplanes.

 

I do a lot’s of traveling for living. I’ve just returned from Shanghai. Every time I have a chance, I visit military museums. So I’ve checked one in Johannesburg, Nanton (Alberta, Canada), Belgrade (Serbia), Calgary, Galveston TX … I was on every continent of the world, I lived in Israel for a year and in Australia for six months.

 

When it comes to R27-A, AE (EA) missiles, they were removed from Lock On because of the user request. Some claim they were never used in real life either. Lately, playing on line became unbearable because ARH missiles are just spammed in quantities, and all the fun flying Su-27 was gone.

 

Since Su-27 can do everything MiG-29 can and much more on top of that, It really did not make any sense to me that Soviet Union and later Russia would not equip Su-27 with ARH’s. That’s where R-27A (EA, AE) program comes into play. I started looking into it and began finding it everywhere. So that’s how it started. Everything else is history …

:)

Now, all I want to know is what the real story is behind R-27A (EA, AE) program. Obviously the missile have been in existence for some time. The question is how long and what radar system was needed to fire it.

 

Regards,

[D-Scythe]

When it comes to R27-A, AE (EA) missiles, they were removed from Lock On because of the user request...Some claim they were never used in real life either....Since Su-27 can do everything MiG-29 can and much more on top of that, It really did not make any sense to me that Soviet Union and later Russia would not equip Su-27 with ARH’s. That’s where R-27A (EA, AE) program comes into play...Now, all I want to know is what the real story is behind R-27A (EA, AE) program. Obviously the missile have been in existence for some time. The question is how long and what radar system was needed to fire it.

 

Right.

[GGTharos]

When it comes to R27-A, AE (EA) missiles, they were removed from Lock On because of the user request.

 

Wrong.

 

Some claim they were never used in real life either.

 

Try the Russian Air Force and industry. Who do you think ED asked?

 

Lately, playing on line became unbearable because ARH missiles are just spammed in quantities, and all the fun flying Su-27 was gone.

 

Ohhh sniffle sniffle. Okay, how about we get a properly working AMRAAM then, which overmatches the R-27E's in fact.

 

The R-27E is no longer competitive, and a new missile was in the works to replace it - the R-77.

 

Does 'why the R-27EA was never used' make sense now?

[Guest IguanaKing]

Its official, the F-111s in LOMAC should carry AIM-54s...and this photo proves it.

 

http://www.f-111.net/t_no_B_files/151970.jpg

 

Oh...and so does this one.

 

http://www.f-111.net/t_no_B_files/151973-a.jpg

 

:D

[4c Hajduk Veljko]

Right.

He, he, he … How about Dr. Carlo Kopp. He’s not right either?

http://www.ausairpower.net/DT-Missile-Survey-May-05.pdf

[Wags]

Incorrect. The AE was removed not because of user request but because the team knows that the missile has never entered Ru service and it was unrealistic to include it. As simple as that.

 

-Matt

[Guest IguanaKing]

He, he, he … How about Dr. Carlo Kopp. He’s not right either?

http://www.ausairpower.net/DT-Missile-Survey-May-05.pdf

 

 

First of all, note the date of that publication in comparison to the approximate era being modelled in LOMAC. Secondly, he's pretty much saying what Alfa already told you...but nowhere did Dr. Kopp OR Alfa say that it was ever deployed.

[nscode]

Exactly. It didn't enter service. That doesn't mean it's non-existent.

[GGTharos]

I don't think anyone said it doesn't exist?

Only that it isn't equipped. Hajduk took it upon himself to find some imaginary R-27A/EAs in photographs.

[D-Scythe]

Exactly. It didn't enter service. That doesn't mean it's non-existent.

 

So we should model everything that existed but didn't enter service?

 

If that was the case, how bout IR-guided AIM-7s for the F-15C? And someone please model the F-23 somewhere along the line - it's early/mid-90s, shouldn't be too hard to add. I mean, if we're just going to make everything unrealistic and all, might as well enjoy it.

 

Thrust vectoring F-15s - those are always cool. And give all F-15s the 22% more powerful F100-PW-229 engines. The A-12 Avenger too. I want that.

[4c Hajduk Veljko]

Hajduk, make sure you READ this about 20 times.

THREAD CLOSED!!!

Cali, calm down my friend. I’ve read every post of yours on this thread. I enjoy playing with you on line and I do respect everything that you say on this forum, no matter how much I agree or disagree with you.

 

Regards,

[Guest IguanaKing]

Guys, I think NSCode might just be saying pretty much the same thing you are. I think he means that just because there are references to it in various publications, doesn't mean that its in service. I'm pretty sure that he isn't suggesting that ED model weapons that haven't entered service. :smilewink:

 

Hajduk's argument seems to keep gravitating toward proving its existence, when that isn't really what is being debated.

[4c Hajduk Veljko]

And no, that's not an 'E' body missile there, the ones on the background flanker are. WTF man?

He, he, he … You are right. Those in foreground are not E bodies, they are A bodies.

 

Cheers,

[GGTharos]

He, he, he … You are right. Those in foreground are not E bodies, they are A bodies.

 

Cheers,

 

There's no such thing as an 'A' body. The only change is in the radome shaping which is AHEAD of the vanes - they don't /need/ changing.

[4c Hajduk Veljko]

Hadjuk has already shown us similar (old) photos of alleged EA's on Su-33's.

The older the better, more in favor of my assumption that R-27A was available long time ago.

And I Iready (tried) to tell him that those are either baseline R-27R's or mockups of R-27R's.

You failed to make your case. I provided photographs. You provided your opinion.

The missiles look very pretty and convincing untill you look at their back. No rocket motor.

You might have a point here, however, I am looking for a good picture to prove that point.

R-27EA's on chinese fighters is debatable (even though far from proven) but EA's on Su-33's is simply undefendable argument. There could be no more self defeating than that.

Every photograph I found in the beginning was on Su-33. Su-27K(Su-33) came ten (10) years after Su-27S and su-27P. Su-33 entered the service after R-77 and AIM-120 entered the service. In my opinion, it is highly unlikely that Su-33 was not able to carry and use some kind or Air to Air ARH missile. Most likely candidate was R-27A (EA, AE).

[Pilotasso]

The R-77 has never entered service THEN. It entered service NOW with the Su-27SM's.

 

If the Su-33 cant take the R-77, neither it would take R-27AE. Theres was never the upgrade and the missile never entered service. Your speculating again.

 

Im sorry if I sound harsh, wich is not my intention but you simply want to push that idea forward in the absence of evidence and youll stick to that untill we prove otherwise.

 

Its not right, it should be proven that it is in the first place, and never taken granted untill then.