some NAV questions...

[fitness88]

I've been working on the M-2000C NAV system and now have a better understanding. With proper freq. and parameters set: For Waypoint I set the HSI to CV and follow the wide needle. For ILS/VOR I set the HSI to VAD and follow the thin needle. For Tacan I set the HSI to TAC and follow the wide needle.

1. On approach I set the Approach mode for the synthetic runway landing. This works fine when using VFR but when having to use IFR in bad weather...I can get to the airfield by following one of the beacons I've mentioned but not having a flight path needle [uS/RUS HSI] how do I get lined up, say 15 miles out lined up with the runway? Is this the purpose of setting an offset heading to have a fly to point that puts you on final approach?

   
   

2. If there are VOR and Tacan beacons available for the same airfield which is used, say you're 200 miles out? Is ILS only used close to the airfield?

   
   

3. Are all the beacons line of sight...if so how far out do they transmit?

   
   

4. If an airfield does not have a Tacan or VOR beacon like Gadauta do you input the lat/long co-ordinates to set up a waypoint?

   
   

 

Thank you.

Edited May 15, 2017 by fitness88

[myHelljumper]

For ILS/VOR I set the HSI to VAD and follow the thin needle

 

This is wrong, for VOR your thin needle is always pointing to the VOR no matter what IDN(HSI) mode you are in.

Edited May 15, 2017 by myHelljumper

[jojo]

The "VAD" on HSI allows you to set up an offset point from a TACAN directly on HSI (not on PCN)

[fitness88]

This is wrong, for VOR your thin needle is always pointing to the VOR no matter what IDN(HSI) mode you are in.

 

 

 

I must have misunderstood the manual.

 

 

NAVIGATION TUTORIAL

HOW TO TRACK A VOR BEACON

1. Press F10 to display the map, find the VOR beacon that you

want to track and note its frequency. In our case, we will track

a VOR beacon near Kutaisi. Its frequency is 113.60 MHz.

2. Set VOR/ILS to MARCHE (ON) using left mouse button and set

VOR frequency to 113.60.

3. Set the HSI (Horizontal Situation Indication) mode to “VAD”

(Vecteur Additionnel: Alternate Waypoint).

4. Follow the HSI thin needle to your waypoint/VOR beacon.

[fitness88]

The "VAD" on HSI allows you to set up an offset point from a TACAN directly on HSI (not on PCN)

 

 

 

Yes using the lower left dial just below the HSI.

[fitness88]

1) Easiest way? Make a waypoint 15 miles out and have the next one on the runway and turn in nice and tight. (without ILS) and continue in VFR, with ILS, do the same but follow the magic marker.. on your ADI (the ball), you see a vertical yellow line, this is the centerline.

 

4) was already answered in the other thread where you posted the same question.

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=3138396#post3138396

 

 

 

Thanks for the follow-up.

 

 

I take it this is done while flying to allow for unscheduled landings at some airfield, not pre-flight.

 

I'll do some HOTAS mapping once I get a better idea of what I need mapped. Rift offers many advantages but seeing the keyboard isn't one of them unfortunately.

Edited May 15, 2017 by fitness88

[myHelljumper]

I must have misunderstood the manual.

 

 

NAVIGATION TUTORIAL

HOW TO TRACK A VOR BEACON

1. Press F10 to display the map, find the VOR beacon that you

want to track and note its frequency. In our case, we will track

a VOR beacon near Kutaisi. Its frequency is 113.60 MHz.

2. Set VOR/ILS to MARCHE (ON) using left mouse button and set

VOR frequency to 113.60.

3. Set the HSI (Horizontal Situation Indication) mode to “VAD”

(Vecteur Additionnel: Alternate Waypoint).

4. Follow the HSI thin needle to your waypoint/VOR beacon.

 

No, the manual is wrong here.(Is it from RB's M2000 manual ? Not chuck's guide ?)

 

In the RB's M2000 Manual you have an array in the navigation chapter that show what each indicator do in each HSI mode :).

[fitness88]

No, the manual is wrong here.(Is it from RB's M2000 manual ? Not chuck's guide ?)

 

In the RB's M2000 Manual you have an array in the navigation chapter that show what each indicator do in each HSI mode :).

 

 

 

Chuck's guide.

Thanks I have that book marked.

[myHelljumper]

Chuck's guide.

Thanks I have that book marked.

 

Yeah, chuck's guide is not a manual, and on that particular point is wrong. AFAIK he stopped updating it until the 2000 is closer to release so be careful with the info in it (It is still a good document for the community, big thanks to him).

[fitness88]

Yeah, chuck's guide is not a manual, and on that particular point is wrong. AFAIK he stopped updating it until the 2000 is closer to release so be careful with the info in it (It is still a good document for the community, big thanks to him).

 

 

 

Yes it is a good tutorial and going forward I will double check with the flight manual.

[myHelljumper]

Yes it is a good tutorial and going forward I will double check with the flight manual.

 

I think that is currently the best way to do it :).

[azm]

Is this possible to add a waypoint and activate synthetic runway mode for this waypoint? For both RAZBAM and real M-2000C.

[myHelljumper]

Is this possible to add a waypoint and activate synthetic runway mode for this waypoint? For both RAZBAM and real M-2000C.

 

IRL yes, you have to add a waypoint on the center of the runway, fill the CP/PD(cap piste/pente désirée -> runway heading/glide slope) and tune to the correct ILS.

 

In game it won't work, the only way to have the synthetic runway is to add the waypoint from the editor. It's a bug and Zeus said that it will work like IRL :).

[azm]

That`s good, thank you!

[3rd Wing - Raiden]

Hi fitness88,

 

French M-2000c performing Air Defense Mission usually have "BUT" (waypoints) and BAD (BUT Additionnels - Additional Waypoints) preload in the Mission Data Cartridge.

 

Part of the BUTs are airfield locations and the respective BADs is usually the airfield entry point or initial point.

 

What you can do is to set a waypoint on an airfield in landing mode in the editor. Then add a BAD to this waypoint in-game. The BAD would be set to the desired initial point.

 

When performing your approach, head for the BAD the switch back to the associated BUT. This way you should have a good alignment, even in very bad IFR conditions.

 

Cheers,

[fitness88]

Hi fitness88,

 

French M-2000c performing Air Defense Mission usually have "BUT" (waypoints) and BAD (BUT Additionnels - Additional Waypoints) preload in the Mission Data Cartridge.

 

Part of the BUTs are airfield locations and the respective BADs is usually the airfield entry point or initial point.

 

What you can do is to set a waypoint on an airfield in landing mode in the editor. Then add a BAD to this waypoint in-game. The BAD would be set to the desired initial point.

 

When performing your approach, head for the BAD the switch back to the associated BUT. This way you should have a good alignment, even in very bad IFR conditions.

 

Cheers,

 

 

Thanks for this information 3rd Wing - Raiden.

The Russian planes have the equivalent of BUT & BAD programed into the NAV system for all DCS airfields making navigation very easy.The U.S. planes use the HSI very effectively by having 1 needle point to the selected airfield and the other needle showing your needed flight path for runway alignment [or waypoint navigation] which makes navigation also very easy at a glance.

Both have ILS to guide you in once you're in the cone of the ILS.

 

 

Based on the need to setup a BAD in order to have an entry intercept point for landing, what do you see as the reason the M-2000C does not use a U.S. styled HSI with flight path marker which would have simplified the process...what am I missing?

I've noticed that there are several airfields that have no tacan or ILS and some have just ILS. Are you saying in this case that I need to go into the mission editor before flight to setup a BAD for all the airfields and then from the cockpit setup a BAD if I want a runway intercept point. You can't use the mission editor to set up missing BAT in multi-player mission you are about to fly...I don't think?

 

 

I understand I can setup a waypoint anywhere I want from the cockpit using f10 map co-ordinates. It seems if I want to land spontaneously when out for a casual flight I will need to do a lot of setup in order to fly and land where I want by setting up waypoints from the cockpit.

Edited May 20, 2017 by fitness88

[myHelljumper]

You can add them in flight.

[fitness88]

You can add them in flight.

 

 

 

Why can't a BUT be added in cockpit like I would for a BAD, why does it need to be set to 'landing' in the mission editor and as I mentioned what if it's not your mission?

[myHelljumper]

You can do anything with the PCN, for the moment adding a synthetic runway does not work that is why you have to do it with the editor.

When it will work there will be nothing you can do with the editor that you can't do with the PCN ;).

[jojo]

Thanks for this information 3rd Wing - Raiden.

The Russian planes have the equivalent of BUT & BAD programed into the NAV system for all DCS airfields making navigation very easy.The U.S. planes use the HSI very effectively by having 1 needle point to the selected airfield and the other needle showing your needed flight path for runway alignment [or waypoint navigation] which makes navigation also very easy at a glance.

Both have ILS to guide you in once you're in the cone of the ILS.

 

 

Based on the need to setup a BAD in order to have an entry intercept point for landing, what do you see as the reason the M-2000C does not use a U.S. styled HSI with flight path marker which would have simplified the process...what am I missing?

I've noticed that there are several airfields that have no tacan or ILS and some have just ILS. Are you saying in this case that I need to go into the mission editor before flight to setup a BAD for all the airfields and then from the cockpit setup a BAD if I want a runway intercept point. You can't use the mission editor to set up missing BAT in multi-player mission you are about to fly...I don't think?

 

 

I understand I can setup a waypoint anywhere I want from the cockpit using f10 map co-ordinates. It seems if I want to land spontaneously when out for a casual flight I will need to do a lot of setup in order to fly and land where I want by setting up waypoints from the cockpit.

 

Mirage 2000C has been designed as interceptor with good enough dogfight capacity.

In France any Air Force air base would have TACAN and ILS.

There are airports and airfields of various sizes and VOR (DME) all other the country.

With TACAN, VOR and INS it's well suited for the purpose.

You can set up offset waypoint on INS BUT and on TACAN stations. So it leaves plenty of options. Just a different way to do it.

 

In DCS F-15C, MiG 29 and Su 27 are simplified. You can't edit waypoints in DCS F-15C right now, and you can't do it IRL in the MiG 29 and Su 27 models represented in DCS.

[Azrayen]

Why aren't BADs pre-progammed?

1- IRL they may be. In DCS this is not possible.

2- And BAD have different uses, it's not "limited" to a FAF (and IRL not all BADs are FAF, far from it in fact).

 

Using a BAD for a FAF is a possibility, not an obligation. It's an optional aid IRL, and you should be able to make your approach without it: simply fly "by hand" and think of your IDN (HSI) as a map, that's what it is, really.

 

It is possible to add a BUT in cockpit. What is (for now - DCS limitation) not possible is to get the synthetic runway. The synthetic runway is an optional aid IRL, and you should be able to land without it.

[fitness88]

Yes, so many things. All things, to do. So many :D

 

It takes about 5 seconds to add a airfield to the INS. 10 seconds if you want elevation too, 15 if you also want ILS. :huh:

 

And no need for F-10 map. You can use the ground charts (in your Doc folder in the DCS directory), or as I did, just write them on the wall of the mirage.

 

Example: Entry of Senaki (coordinates, elevation, ILS), whilst casually cruising the coastline. All the info i'm adding to the INS comes from the list on the sidewall, no moving back and forward to the mapview.

eI0wvVAKIro

 

 

 

Can you please post the file you use and the location it belongs.

You do not use Oculus. Yes it would take seconds using your num-pad with a screen environment to input the data. It takes a bit more time using the mouse in VR, I'll see about mapping the num-pad to my HOTAS along with tacan and ILS switches.

Edited May 20, 2017 by fitness88

[fitness88]

You can do anything with the PCN, for the moment adding a synthetic runway does not work that is why you have to do it with the editor.

When it will work there will be nothing you can do with the editor that you can't do with the PCN ;).

 

 

 

Yes I have to start thinking out of the box as I've been flying FC3.

[fitness88]

Mirage 2000C has been designed as interceptor with good enough dogfight capacity.

In France any Air Force air base would have TACAN and ILS.

There are airports and airfields of various sizes and VOR (DME) all other the country.

With TACAN, VOR and INS it's well suited for the purpose.

You can set up offset waypoint on INS BUT and on TACAN stations. So it leaves plenty of options. Just a different way to do it.

 

In DCS F-15C, MiG 29 and Su 27 are simplified. You can't edit waypoints in DCS F-15C right now, and you can't do it IRL in the MiG 29 and Su 27 models represented in DCS.

 

 

 

I took for granted flying FC3 that all airfields would have both an airfield beacon and a runway intercept point for all aircraft in DCS, now I realize it doesn't work that way.

 

 

Please correct me if I have the wrong understanding:

1. TACAN beacon is placed on an airfield for providing direct route to the airfield.
   
2. INS beacon is setup near threshold to provide localizer and glideslope landing info.
   
3. VOR beacon provides fly-to navigation point any where you want to set it up.
   
4. Waypoints are fly-to points that can be cockpit created, anywhere you choose [can be offset to TACAN?].
   
5. I use the PSM to select the frequencies for the above except the waypoints I use the PCN.
   

Edited May 20, 2017 by fitness88

[fitness88]

Why aren't BADs pre-progammed?

1- IRL they may be. In DCS this is not possible.

2- And BAD have different uses, it's not "limited" to a FAF (and IRL not all BADs are FAF, far from it in fact).

 

Using a BAD for a FAF is a possibility, not an obligation. It's an optional aid IRL, and you should be able to make your approach without it: simply fly "by hand" and think of your IDN (HSI) as a map, that's what it is, really.

 

It is possible to add a BUT in cockpit. What is (for now - DCS limitation) not possible is to get the synthetic runway. The synthetic runway is an optional aid IRL, and you should be able to land without it.

 

 

 

Yes I do very much so but I've become dependent on the flight path marker that doesn't exist in the M-2000C and am trying to figure out what I will use that is available to give me the same navigation awareness. I have to change my thinking but first I need to understand exactly what does what...slowly getting there