Questions

[lazduc]

DCS 1.5.7 goes to Open Beta today.

It will be available for public in the next week.

 

What does this mean, "Open Beta"? I am also confused with the term, "public" as used in this sense.

 

If 1.57xxx is the stable build and I have purchased the Normandy map and add-on, the new map requires DCS World 2.0xxxx which is Alpha/Beta/early release (??) so it seems like both of these modules fall into the beta-tester-supporter early release(?) category. :noexpression:

 

My concern, as mentioned in another post is testing a number of different computer configurations and losing all my activation's. If I have DCS World 2.0xxx installed and have all my modules activated I will be testing on software that is uncompleted and therefore unreliable to obtain any useful data and losing activation's. 1.57xx is also unfinished.

 

I want to be able to test with Normandy. Does "Open Beta" mean it is a released/finished module and will support Normandy? But since it is labeled "1.57xx (?) :cry: :thumbup:

 

What does "Early Access" imply...one could conclude the definition is access to a released/completed software title earlier than the proposed release date. Open Alpha and other terms describing the state of software is confusing. I have invested more than $600.00 in DCS software and find very few modules completed or in a final/released/ whatever you call it, state.

 

I look forward to 2.5 and sincerely hope it condenses all into a completed version, minus of course any added features/new modules. :smilewink:

 

Laz :D

[David OC]

If you have one of the DCS versions installed and the modules activated, then you install another version of DCS, you will not need to activate the modules again.

 

If you want to make changes to your computer or take DCS off your PC etc. You can deactivate each module in the module manager to not lose any module activation's.

 

The Alpha / Beta can be confusing. ED's Tech needs a little more time to mature, it's more cutting edge tech then most developments out there, We also get to use this bleeding edge tech and help ED by trying to fault it, have you seen the bug sections for each aircraft and for DCS, that's where to post if you do find one. (Just don't lose your head if you see one LOL)

 

Development has come up a few times here lately, many are frustrated, things within DCS are moving forward towards this merge, some say there is too many things trying to get done at once. What I see is all these many things in DCS need to move up to the top of the pyramid together, as they move everything needs to still work perfectly together.

 

Hopefully there's never any major problems that effects game play as DCS moves forward, things happen tho with this bleeding edge tech, ED tries real hard to fix any major problems week to week if they come up.

 

Some of the aircraft have little flaws, some here can have major problems with it if a rivet is missing, I dont let the little things get to me, these cutting edge modules need a little time to mature, that's all, little spit and polish here and there, then out of beta, this final polish takes time to get to this DCS level of a finished module, and that level is high, more than any other developer in the sim market place.

 

All ED's modules are platinum in PC pilot mag, even at the beta stage, another way I would put it, to some other developers out there, only half of what ED and third parties do here, would be considered as a finished module.

 

EDIT

 

As seen on the Normandy 1944 Map + WWII Assets Pack product page.

 

"This product can be downloaded and installed through the DCS World Module Manager. If you do not have DCS World installed, you can download the DCS World web-installer by clicking this link. If the product description does not have information about which DCS World version you should install, you only need to have the DCS World 2.1 installed on your PC."

 

There are 3 installs at the moment as seen here

 

I only have DCS World 1.5 (Stable, not beta) and DCS World 2.0 Early Access (Alpha) installed, so I can use Normandy 1944 Map and NEVADA Training Range Map.

 

2.5 when released will have the new original Georgia map, that is getting completely updated by ED for free.

 

You can also change the stable version 1.5 to different versions and then back again using the windows Command Prompt: see this post, Updater to Update, Revert, Repair, or Install Modules.

 

I do this sometimes on the stable install to checkout any new updates that are out in the beta version, if unstable? Revert back.

 

Want to checkout 1.5.7 the beta version? (DCS 1.5.7 goes to Open (Beta) today.)

 

Use these commands to switch between the latest stable and latest Beta, once you open the command window at the right place.

DCS_updater.exe update @release

DCS_updater.exe update @openbeta

 

Copy and paste works here too.

 

Open (Beta) is NOT for Normandy or the NTTR map. It's the test (Beta) for the stable version 1.5, before for it's signed off as being stable.

 

 

Edited July 7, 2017 by David OC

[MikeMikeJuliet]

In short:

1.5.x versions will never support any other map other than the current Caucasus. Period.

 

 

The long version:

"Early access" as a term means a product that users are able to use, but is not intended to be complete, ready, finished or bug-free. It is a buzzword trying to describe a product used in a "pay to play this before it is released". Essentially a monetized beta, but with the benefit of actually owning the products copy, rather than being revoked access after release.

 

Release version = the "1.0" version of a product. Doesn't mean it is in it's final state feature-wise, nor bug-free (I don't know many games that have ever been bug free on launch... back in the day they were more so because of no update ability due to the lack of internet [meaning stronger incentive to release a working product], and due to the smaller complexity of programs).

 

Public = the consumers at large. Not just a set of people in a close beta test. Public doesn't mean something is free, but it means it is available to everyone with the abikity to puchase. Same with open/closed beta. You can participate to an open beta at will (as in "open to the public" -beta), where as you need to apply to be let into a closed beta, or at least closed beta applications are not passed unless the developer specifically wants you to have access.

 

Alpha/beta in this case are developement versions. Sort of synonymous with early access, but not quite the same. So 1.5.7 released to open beta means it is just a 1.5.x version given out to those who want it to help test it so that it may be released as for the stable version.

 

The Stable version is the current "official" game version. All betas and alphas are developement builds. Stable can and will include early-access modules, since the modules themselves are not integral to the core game version per se.

 

All this damn confusing ball of confusion is because of the transitionary state that DCS is in at the moment.

 

This probably just made matters more confusing.

Regards,

MikeMikeJuliet

[QuiGon]

Check this link: http://updates.digitalcombatsimulator.com/

It lists the current version for all development branches.

 

Stable and open beta were on the same version (1.5.6.) till yesterday, when the open beta got updated to 1.5.7. The stable branch will probably follow next week, so that stable and open beta will be on the same version again.

 

As for activations: As David OC already said: Additional parallel installations will not cost additional activations. New maps will only be available to versions above 2.0. So if you want to play new maps you have to either install the open alpha or wait till the open beta and stable release get upgraded to 2.x.

[lazduc]

Thanks for the explanations. See if I have this correct. A customer can purchase the "Early Access version. Is this version considered alpha/beta, open beta, released unfinished beta or what? The customer can purchase at any time any of these builds.

Its difficult to determine what you are purchasing in the store. They all look like they are completed, finished, major bug free. ( I realize most software releases may have minor bugs.)

 

I just looked at the E-shop (rather quickly) but did not see where or what version they are....as in alpha/beta/early/stable.....?

 

LOL I still fly the demo and also FC2. I purchased FC3...Which version of world version can I use FC3 in?

 

Thanks again.

Laz

[David OC]

I still have LockOn - Modern Air Combat CD lazduc:)

 

This sort of software will never be bug free as you said, ED has rebuilt DCS over the last few years with a new graphics engine EDGE and moved to DX11. Not an easy step by a small company, there has been big improvements as we go along.

 

They all look like they are completed, finished, major bug free.

 

In most software this would be the case, in DCS, this is not the case because unlike LockOn FC2, FC3 etc. "DCS World" will be in constant development as the DCS base forever moving forward, this way we have an active developer keeping up with the times and PC development.

 

Just think about DCS World as everything will be modular to the core base product which is the Free "DCS World" install with a Free Su 25T and TF-51 Full fidelity aircraft module pre installed for free.

 

Then each item is at a level of development stage, DCS1.5, DCS 2.1, Normandy, NTTR, Aircraft and Campaigns. Even the Campaign builders have to update their Campaigns as DCS moves forward sometimes as changes are made to the core.

 

Yes ED is trying to get to this next level (2.5) and combine the test builds into one "good" build and keep going from there on (One Beta Build for testing), it just takes time with this sort of cutting edge tech, workload and company size. It's not all about throwing resources at it either, to get it done quicker or more stable (One company tried this, 11 million bucks later and now their base product became only a leaked mod), imagine integrating other coders into ED business, they cannot just jump in and go, with this leading edge tech and we are talking about 100s of thousands of lines of code, that are integrated together, that all work in perfect harmony.

 

FC3 can be installed to any version and have all the FC3 aircraft available in them.

 

I wouldn't get caught up to much in worrying that everything is perfect, we live in an imperfect world, I know ED is doing all they can to make this the best sim they can with the resources they have. They have come along way and now the F18 at the DCS level with carrier Ops, this "aircraft" alone has taken years to do as just a module, let alone getting DCS world to where it is now.

 

Thanks for the explanations. See if I have this correct. A customer can purchase the "Early Access version. Is this version considered alpha/beta, open beta, released unfinished beta or what? The customer can purchase at any time any of these builds.

Its difficult to determine what you are purchasing in the store. They all look like they are completed, finished, major bug free. ( I realize most software releases may have minor bugs.)

 

I just looked at the E-shop (rather quickly) but did not see where or what version they are....as in alpha/beta/early/stable.....?

 

Edited July 8, 2017 by David OC

[imacken]

This sort of software will never be bug free as you said, ED has rebuilt DCS over the last few years with a new graphics engine EDGE and moved to DX11. Not an easy step by a small company, there has been big improvements as we go along.

David, that is true, however DX11 came out 8 (EIGHT) years ago! DX12 has been out for 2 years now. What are the chances of it being implemented in DCS?

[David OC]

David, that is true, however DX11 came out 8 (EIGHT) years ago! DX12 has been out for 2 years now. What are the chances of it being implemented in DCS?

 

DCS was upgraded from DX9, a very large big jump in re coding, so now DCS is DX11 capable, I don't imagine it would be as hard now to perhaps implement some of the DX12 API calls?

 

We don't know enough about the finer inner workings of DCS, I'm sure ED's skilled techs are brainstorming over whatever DX12 APIs could be added to the DCS core moving forward.

 

DirectX 11 vs. DirectX 12 comparison shows uneven results, limited improvements.

 

Quote from the article above

"DirectX 12 is also still fairly new, with just a handful of supporting titles. It’s not unusual for a new API to take (SEVERAL) years to find its feet and for developers to begin supporting it as a primary option."

 

So the question ED's techs would have, how much work to utilize the DX12 APIs? How much benefit will all the "different users hardware" get?

How long will it take to do? How much will this cost? Should this be a priority now?

 

.

Edited July 8, 2017 by David OC