OT “Das Boot” new generation stealth submarine

[TucksonSonny]

There is also a documentary on National Geographic channel about the USS Texas (SSN-775) and the German 212.

 

The German Type 212 is an advanced design of non-nuclear submarine developed by Howaldtswerke-Deutsche Werft AG (HDW) for the German Navy. It features diesel propulsion with an air-independent propulsion (AIP) system using Siemens polymer electrolyte module (PEM) hydrogen fuel cells. The submarine can operate at high speed on diesel power or switch to the AIP system for silent slow cruising, staying submerged for up to three weeks without surfacing and with no exhaust heat.

 

The 212 is also said to be vibration-free, extremely silent and virtually undetectable. HDW is the first shipyard in the world to offer a fuel cell propulsion system ready for series production.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_212_submarine

 

the Type 212 is capable of operating in as little as 20 metres of water, allowing it to come much closer to shore than most contemporary submarines. This gives it an advantage in rescue operations, as SCUBA-equipped commandos operating from the boat can surface close to the beach and execute their mission more quickly and with less effort.

 

To stay on topic again: How about anti-submarine helicopters in BS? :D

[Pilotasso]

My country is expected to take the delivery of 2 U-212's by 2009 with an option for a third. They will be equiped with Harpoon cruise missiles, capable of hitting both ships and land targets. Buts subs are darn expensive today, hope their worth the money were spending.

 

Currently theres only 1 SUB operating here because the original fleet of 3 have to "honor" to be the very oldest subs in the world, and they have been withdrawn in the last few years. My navy operates them in coastal operations for masking the ships with sunken debris while desimbarking special forces And simple surveilance. The new Subs will allow for full strategic deterrence because they can make 1500 miles underwater without recharging. Portugal has banned nuclear devices of any kind in its territorry since the 70's and as such, diesel subs like this are the only options for us.

[Force_Feedback]

All nuclear ban, great move! We will regret all the reactors we've placed, those things will remain lethal for thousands of years.

 

AIP diesels are the stealthiest subs ever, and disels were pretty quiet already when on batteries.

[golfsierra2]

My country is expected to take the delivery of 2 U-212's by 2009 with an option for a third. They will be equiped with Harpoon cruise missiles, capable of hitting both ships and land targets. Buts subs are darn expensive today, hope their worth the money were spending.

 

They are !

"Made in Germany"

[GGTharos]

Diesels are great littoral water subs. When you move to blue water warfare, nuke subs are it.

[Pilotasso]

They are !

"Made in Germany"

 

 

They competed against the french subs of similar class (dunno their name) but the germans offered better offset deals.

 

 

Diesels are great littoral water subs. When you move to blue water warfare, nuke subs are it.

 

To keep safe deep under water for weeks in hostile enviroments, yes.

 

But thats not the role we give them and with a range of 1500 miles in anaerobic mode you have much room to do alot of damage anyway. Ours wont be used for long duration patrols on enemy watters. If anything they could be used for hit and run missions.

 

Yugoslav and Indonesian subs were much less capable and they caused alot of problems for allied military vessels wich had to keep away.

[Pilotasso]

All nuclear ban, great move! We will regret all the reactors we've placed, those things will remain lethal for thousands of years.

 

AIP diesels are the stealthiest subs ever, and disels were pretty quiet already when on batteries.

 

 

Theres a debate going on here about keeping that ban or not. My country has been loosing competitivity not only because of the native lack of productivity but also due to the high prices of energy. We made great strides in renewable sources like river damns heolic parks and solar stations, with wave energy research at full steam here, but they do not offer regular and stable supply (dependent of weather). There are projects of large latest gen nuclear plants avaiable if the ban is lifted but chances are it wont.

 

We have researchers participating in nuclear fusion (particulary the future experimental french powerplant) wich could be a solution but only in the long term. We are paying dearly for expensive energy.

[Groove]

The americans are really "hot" on getting the fuel cell technics which are in the German U-Boot ;). There were some political issues here in Germany because out of nothing a US Fond wanted to buy shares of HDW. And it is/was obvious why they wanted this...

[TucksonSonny]

Diesels are great littoral water subs. When you move to blue water warfare, nuke subs are it.

 

Ok but my guess is the 212 can go deeper!

Anyway Official depth for the 212: over 250m

Range: 8,000 nautical miles (14,800 km) at 8 knots (15 km/h) surfaced

Endurance: 3 weeks without snorkeling, 12 weeks overall.

Official depth of the USS Texas (SSN-775): over 244m

A funny story about the USS Texas torpedo’s:

A new torpedo “Barracuda” is still under development for the SSN-775.

The technology was stolen from the VA-111 Shkval original model which is still the most dangerous thread for all navy-ships.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VA-111_Shkval_torpedo

[Pilotasso]

Russian tropedoes were faster yes.

[TucksonSonny]

Russian tropedoes were faster yes.

 

About more than 2 times faster you mean!

VA-111 Shkval - Original variant; believed to be unguided (or perhaps tracking but not very maneuverable)

"Shkval 2" - Current variant; believed to be guided, possibly via the use of vectored thrust, and with much longer range

[p_o_d_2_2]

wow, and i thought the spearfish was fast!

[D-Scythe]

How many times does this have to be repeated? Those things *don't* guide. What *makes* them fast also *makes* them unguidable.

 

You might as well be shooting unguided Phoenixes from an airplane - unless it has a nuclear warhead on it, it's not gonna hit anything.

[TucksonSonny]

How many times does this have to be repeated? Those things *don't* guide. What *makes* them fast also *makes* them unguidable.

 

You might as well be shooting unguided Phoenixes from an airplane - unless it has a nuclear warhead on it, it's not gonna hit anything.

 

"Shkval 2" is guidable

He He…

How many times did you repeated the speed of the Almighty F-22 :D

 

Anyway, a Canadian spy bought/*ugh* stole *ugh* the technology from Russia!

 

BTW, were you a Canadian D-Scythe? :D

[Guest IguanaKing]

I guess whether or not its guidable would depend on what the Shkval 2 is using for propulsion. But, then again, I guess something that uses supercavitation would have to have an unconventional propulsion system. It'd be interesting to see how the guidance system would be fed. I imagine that trailing a wire behind something that moves that fast might present all kinds of problems that needed to be solved.

[britgliderpilot]

To stay on topic again: How about anti-submarine helicopters in BS? :D

 

Well wouldn't you need proper submarine modelling for them to be of any importance?

 

 

None of the subs in Lomac go underwater . . . .

[Force_Feedback]

Imagine the fps if we wolud have actual submarines, ouch!

 

OMG, even in this thread is the damn F-22, come on, the thing is too expensive, and way over budget, you don't need to defend that, that's what LM-spokespersons are for. 'Yes, the F-22 will only cost 60 mil*`'", no need whining that it will do the job of 4, or 40 other jets, the thing is too darn expensive, accept it.

 

 

 

 

 

*`'"= May include ordering 2000 units, 20 new factories and half a president's leg for vodoo purposes

 

Nuclear submarines' future is getting bleaker and bleaker, when a very efficient energy conversion is possible (in 20 years perhaps), all nuclear subs may be obsolete and not stealthy enough. Imagine an electric sub with lots of endurance and good diving depth, that thing will be kind of like the F-22, just let's hope the whining will not be on such a scale. :/

[Guest IguanaKing]

Wow!!! All of this talk about F-22s and LM in a thread about submarines. Now THAT is what I call "defensive". :megalol:

 

Unfortunately, Plutonium is one of few substances that can generate the energy needed for long periods of time, without the need for air, light, etc. This new German submarine is a great step forward, but its submergence is limited by its powerplant. Even though the submarine is surrounded by trillions of Hydrogen molecules at any given time, it would require a greater amount of energy to extract them from the water than what a hydrogen fuel cell or batteries could provide. With a nuclear sub, the only limitation to how long you can stay down is how much food you can carry. Oh...and I guess time is the ultimate limitation...no matter how much food you pack in, that Plutonium pellet is only going to power everything on your ship for about 13 years. :music_whistling:

[D-Scythe]

"Shkval 2" is guidable

He He…

 

Please, enlighten me.

 

Anyway, a Canadian spy bought/*ugh* stole *ugh* the technology from Russia!

 

BTW, were you a Canadian D-Scythe? :D

 

I didn't even know we had money to spend on spies :lol:

[Force_Feedback]

Wow!!! All of this talk about F-22s and LM in a thread about submarines. Now THAT is what I call "defensive". :megalol:

 

Unfortunately, Plutonium is one of few substances that can generate the energy needed for long periods of time, without the need for air, light, etc. This new German submarine is a great step forward, but its submergence is limited by its powerplant. Even though the submarine is surrounded by trillions of Hydrogen molecules at any given time, it would require a greater amount of energy to extract them from the water than what a hydrogen fuel cell or batteries could provide. With a nuclear sub, the only limitation to how long you can stay down is how much food you can carry. Oh...and I guess time is the ultimate limitation...no matter how much food you pack in, that Plutonium pellet is only going to power everything on your ship for about 13 years. :music_whistling:

 

Hey, I just watched Chariots Of The Gods, while being slightly stoned, so forgive my short term optimism, according to that docu, we already visited Mars and are perparing manned missions to Venus .... :P And, it has great seventies music, sure stoner material, and it's educational.

[Guest IguanaKing]

We already have sent probes to Mars in the 70's, and sent back lots of good photos and video. It wasn't until the late 90's that Mars missions had failures. I guess that's a testament to the power of the good ol' slide-rule over the "supercomputer". :D

[Groove]

Wow!!! All of this talk about F-22s and LM in a thread about submarines. Now THAT is what I call "defensive". :megalol:

 

Unfortunately, Plutonium is one of few substances that can generate the energy needed for long periods of time, without the need for air, light, etc. This new German submarine is a great step forward, but its submergence is limited by its powerplant. Even though the submarine is surrounded by trillions of Hydrogen molecules at any given time, it would require a greater amount of energy to extract them from the water than what a hydrogen fuel cell or batteries could provide. With a nuclear sub, the only limitation to how long you can stay down is how much food you can carry. Oh...and I guess time is the ultimate limitation...no matter how much food you pack in, that Plutonium pellet is only going to power everything on your ship for about 13 years. :music_whistling:

 

But a silent fuel cell sub is still better for some tasks. Its better to be in a "silent" fuel cell boat at the iranian border then in a nuclear sub which is louder and being discovered :D

 

Btw, Iran has some Tareq-Class ( Kilo`s) ^^

[Guest IguanaKing]

How long does it take a 688 to get to the Persian Gulf from Norfolk, though? No matter how silent you are, the whole world sees you when you travel near the surface with your snorkel to breathe. Can the diesel engines electrolize enough water during that time to make enough hydrogen for another dive? Hydrogen fuel cell subs, at this point, are of little use in expeditionary warfare.

 

Kilo class are very dangerous, as long as the conflict is short. ;)

[Pilotasso]

Yeah the gulfs watters are really shallow. You can forget about disapearing by diving deeper.

[Groove]

IK if the nuclear-subs are so uber in every aspect of warefare then tell me please why the US are so interested in the fuel cell technology aboard the 212 ?

 

Besides, i dont think that the "target countries" of the fuel cell subs are capable of world wide tracking of submarine movements. The trick is to get in there were a nuclear sub is too loud, do the mission ( recon or deployment of SpecOps) and get back out of there.

 

Yeah, the 688 can stay submerged for a travel from Norfolk to the Persian Golf. But what is this good for if its get detected in shallow waters ? ;)