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Hi all.

 

I'm trying to learn BFM through the campaign. I make a similar mission to the F-5 v F-5 practice mission so I can adjust the AI difficulty.

 

I have gotten pretty good at bating the bandit at the 'good' difficulty level. When I increased the difficulty to 'high' I am able to get behind the bandit but the energy I expend trying to get a lead gunshot ends up depleting my energy reserve to the point I cannot outmaneuver the bandit.

 

Does anyone have any advice on how to better get behind the bandit at the merge and get into a lead gunshot position?

 

I have attached a tacview recording for reference.

Tacview-20170727-115801-DCS.zip.rar

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What's the default AI level in the campaign? F5 vs F5 wasn't hard - after head-on merge I would do an Immelman and AI usually starts with a flat turn and then tries to climb up to me (so kind of a delayed combat turn). I pretty much always end up on top and the main thing after that is to get into the same plane of maneuver for a good tracking gunshot in time (mission allocates certain period of time before calling end of engagement). If I screw up my advantage though and see AI starting to get upper hand, chopping throttle and forcing flat or rolling scissors forces AI to overshoot, just try to maintain enough energy to be able to turn into the plane of maneuver and at lag pursuit until you get enough energy. I'll try to look at your track later on today when I get on my PC.

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I believe we set all AI to excellent as we wanted them to exhibit the best behavior the game engine could offer.

 

Recently ED announced they are doing more work on the AI to improve the G-force blackout effects to make them more realistic.

 

That should help make the dogfighting easier but hopefully still keep it a challenge.

 

You might try a wider merge distance and make the turn earlier so you can keep your speed up and get a deflection shot as they go by.

 

How you handle the merge really dictates how the engagement goes. Too early you give him your tail, too late and then it's a challenge to get in a good position.

 

Head on attacks are usually fatal but you might get lucky there too!

 

It's an almost endless set of variables that you can apply at the merge and each can cause a different experience with how the engagement unfolds.

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Just watched your track. You are entering the fight at 1:11 with almost 150kts speed advantage over AI, however after the merge you start breaking hard into the opponent with 6-7g's vs his 3g. At 1:21, just 10 seconds later, you already have less speed than AI, pretty much at the same altitude as him and with barely any, if any at all, angles won. 10sec later, at 1:32, at the top of the combat turn you have 50kts less than AI and you initiate lead pursuit. At 2:11 you are 60kts slower, forced out of gun range but still trying to keep your nose ahead of the enemy - at this point you are not gaining anything, just wasting your speed; 7 seconds later, at 2:18 AI got another 600ft of separation on you and speed difference is now 83kts and it just keeps on going...

 

Basically you are trying too hard to get him in your sights asap. I would have done a more relaxed combat turn/corkscrew to try to end up over AI at the top of my turn and then would have tried to lead pursuit (given there is enough separation and I feel I have a chance) to close the range for a gunshot. Lag pursuit when you are running low on speed - force opponent to turn harder then you are and waste his speed; if you see him getting out of your plane of maneuver, point your nose high/low and rotate to keep target in sight (high/low yo-yo). Another thing to keep in mind is your corner speed (ie best turning speed) in F5 is around 350kts; below 300kts F5 is a pig.


Edited by mx22
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Here is a quick engagement with the first F5 from campaign's practice mission. I'm still testing my new joystick so flying is not as perfect as I would like.

 

Fun starts at the 3min mark. I'm coming in with a lot of speed and unload into altitude - as I initiate the climb, I try to keep enemy centered at the back edge of the canopy, just barely visible when I turn head (I'm flying VR, so when I say barely visible at my head turn, I do mean it). At 3:40 mark, after the combat turn, I have over 7000ft advantage and a much higher speed. I judge that there is enough vertical separation for me to turn for a gun pass, I cut throttle and start lead pursuit. 4:05 mark, engagement is pretty much over at this point - I know I have angles on AI and it's now a matter of putting bullets into him. Far from perfect aiming, but I let him fly into my bullets at 4:28.

Tacview-20170823-233608-DCS-F-5E - BFM01 Practice 1 vs 1 GO vs F-5E.zip.zip

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  • 2 weeks later...

no worries, remember to watch your speed. Btw, try F-5's Air to Air quick mission - it's 1vs1 against F-14. You start on his 6 and can unload Sidewinders into him for a quick kill, but keep to guns only (at least initially) for some fun.

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  • 7 months later...

I've been having a devil of a time knocking this mission out as well! I have yet to.score a hit on my opponent. Normally, I can keep his nose off of me, but I can never seem to get my nose on him either.

 

I watched MX22 tacview and found it brilliant. Go into the fight with lots of energy and take it vertical. But even if I beat him in the vertical at the merge, I can never seem to convert it into a kill. I do better if he goes up with me. And I ease into the pull to about 5g. But if he rolls into a turn and starts a climbing turn as I go vertical at the merge, he always meets me nose to nose on the way back down with an AMAZING amount of energy remaining.

 

I've been working on flying Lag to retain energy, but he always manages to be way more efficient at his rate and eventually we and up tight and he's gained nose position on me..

 

Seems like the only time I push him into a low energy state, I'm always facing away. LOL. I HAVE gotten close, but typically, I have absolutely ZERO elevator left to put my nose into a lead position to fire.

 

My only sucesses here are when I get them into a vertical rolling scissors and force them below the hard deck.

 

So I get shot down maybe 10%, force them low 10%, and we time out the other 80%. I guess that's a win even though it's not successful. If you can't shoot them, at least don't let them shoot you.

 

This bird has really made me realize just how much I've become dependent upon the raw thrust and superior engineering of the newer gen fighters. They almost always seem to have some thrust or control authority that you can pull the nose around and put your lift vector on your opponent and hang in there.

 

I look like a idiot.(don't need much help)

 

Markeebo

 

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


Edited by Markeebo
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  • 2 months later...

Yeah, I cant seem to get past the first engagement. I've changes the practice missions AI to notch up to excellent with each engagement, but still cant get past "Hard". I hate to give up on the Campaign, but the AI are just too good. I was hoping these missions would teach me to fight BFM and ACM.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

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Sydy and MrPilot have some good videos. Watching them might help teach you some techniques.

 

You can't chase the bandits, but anticipate where they are going to be and get ahead of them (easier said than done).

 

With practice you will learn what works best for you.

 

Sydy:

 

MrPilot:

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  • 7 months later...

Hey Folks,

 

Thought I post here as a continuation rather than a new topic.

 

Flying 1v1, me F-18 vs AI F-14A guns only, once we have manoeuvered for a few minutes, he ends up on my tail in lead pursuit. What are some tactics to shake him? Usually we have lost most of our altitude so vertical is no option.

 

Cheers!

W10 Home 64Bit, Intel Skylake I5 6600K 3.50GHz, ASUS ROG Stryx Z270F MoBo, 32GB G.Skill RipJaws V DDR4 3200 RAM, Samsung 960 Pro 512GB M.2 SSD (OS), Samsung 850 Pro 512GB SSD, 2TB Seagate SDHD, 2TB WD Green HDD, GALAX GTX GeForce 1070 EXOC Sniper White 8GB VRAM

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Hey Folks,

 

Thought I post here as a continuation rather than a new topic.

 

Flying 1v1, me F-18 vs AI F-14A guns only, once we have manoeuvered for a few minutes, he ends up on my tail in lead pursuit. What are some tactics to shake him? Usually we have lost most of our altitude so vertical is no option.

 

Cheers!

Vertical OR horizontal, AI loves scissors. If he's already behind you, the best defense is to minimize the amount of time he can bring his guns to bear on you.

 

Roll and pull. Add some vertical with some pitch if you get any relief just to add a third axis to the fight. I'm unsure just WHO will have the higher AoA advantage, bit the cat will def have the thrust on you. Patience and roll EVERY time you start to see his intakes. He MUST lead you. So long as you don't see his intakes, he's not got the energy to pull enough lead to get the shot. Sooner or later, you can out roll and AoA him. It's quite fun to see when they know they are beaten. The second that they get in front of your 3-9 line and they're not getting back behind, they will roll level and power up up and away. Even if you don't have the nose authority to pull up on him, you defeated him. Enjoy that victory.

 

markeebo

 

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

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Vertical OR horizontal, AI loves scissors. If he's already behind you, the best defense is to minimize the amount of time he can bring his guns to bear on you.

 

Roll and pull. Add some vertical with some pitch if you get any relief just to add a third axis to the fight. I'm unsure just WHO will have the higher AoA advantage, bit the cat will def have the thrust on you. Patience and roll EVERY time you start to see his intakes. He MUST lead you. So long as you don't see his intakes, he's not got the energy to pull enough lead to get the shot. Sooner or later, you can out roll and AoA him. It's quite fun to see when they know they are beaten. The second that they get in front of your 3-9 line and they're not getting back behind, they will roll level and power up up and away. Even if you don't have the nose authority to pull up on him, you defeated him. Enjoy that victory.

 

markeebo

 

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

Hey many thanks markeebo, I finally got him lol... I was building up my energy ok and forgot about the g limiter. At the critical time I pulled that, and he was toast. Got into a horizontal scissors, and finally got a reactionary guns shot through his right wing.

 

Thanks again for the timely advice,

 

Cheers mate

W10 Home 64Bit, Intel Skylake I5 6600K 3.50GHz, ASUS ROG Stryx Z270F MoBo, 32GB G.Skill RipJaws V DDR4 3200 RAM, Samsung 960 Pro 512GB M.2 SSD (OS), Samsung 850 Pro 512GB SSD, 2TB Seagate SDHD, 2TB WD Green HDD, GALAX GTX GeForce 1070 EXOC Sniper White 8GB VRAM

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