Resistance of Warthog-/Cougar-Stick?

[Ragnar65]

Hi guys,

 

one question to our RL-jockeys: Is the resistance in stickmovement of the Warthog- and Cougar-Stick comparable to real FBW-sticks (especially in the Hornet)? In the classic YT-videos it looks like the pilots can move the stick very easily with two fingers... I can do that with my Cougar as well, but it doesn´t feel as easy as it looks in the videos...

[Haukka81]

Hi guys,

 

one question to our RL-jockeys: Is the resistance in stickmovement of the Warthog- and Cougar-Stick comparable to real FBW-sticks (especially in the Hornet)? In the classic YT-videos it looks like the pilots can move the stick very easily with two fingers... I can do that with my Cougar as well, but it doesn´t feel as easy as it looks in the videos...

 

 

 

Warthog is unrealistic heavy.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[hansangb]

Maybe because there was no extension on it? As soon as I added the extension, I could move it with just a few fingers. Before adding the extension, I had to do the "spring mod" where you replace the main spring with the four smaller ones below the plate. This MOD:

 

It's all but necessary if you fly helo's with the Warthog (without extensions. With extensions, it's fine as is)

[toutenglisse]

From what I understood from a DCS Hornet's thread, the F/a-18c has a "force feedback" stick.

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=195393

 

So stick's resistance seems to change with different parameters, angle of attack/speed/G's....

[Flamin_Squirrel]

From what I understood from a DCS Hornet's thread, the F/a-18c has a "force feedback" stick.

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=195393

 

So stick's resistance seems to change with different parameters, angle of attack/speed/G's....

 

 

 

Nope, lucky-hendrix pretty much sums it up here:

 

 

I don't think you understood this text, this highlights even more the fact that ffb is almost pointless for a fbw jet.

 

Stick force Vs g force stays constant over most of the flight envelope. So basically a stick with a spring return to center is quite close to the real thing

[toutenglisse]

Flamin Squirrel we don't understand quotes from the F/A-18 flight manual the same way.

When I read "Where AOA feedback is active, maneuvering stick forces are increased significantly" I don't think a spring is involved.

When I read "Stick force Vs g force stays constant over most of the flight envelope" I think a 50% stick move don't give the same G's depending on the speed, so the forces varie and again no spring only law.

 

BTW it seems that military FBW widely implicates force feedback, because it's about "active inceptors", "artificial feel units", and even the autopilot send back drives on the stick on several civilian or military aircrafts ("Active sidesticks that provide tactile and visual feedback in response to pilot and autopilot commands are used in the Lockheed Martin F-35 Joint Strike Fighter and Sikorsky CH-53K heavy-lift helicopter")

 

There is also trim that changes stick position for active ones... (several in DCS)

 

I surely misunderstand some things but I clearly think that force feedback is involved in RL for F/A-18

[Vatikus]

I surely misunderstand some things but I clearly think that force feedback is involved in RL for F/A-18

it is, it increases force gradient on stick when 22deg AoA is reached as a stall warning.

[Flamin_Squirrel]

Flamin Squirrel we don't understand quotes from the F/A-18 flight manual the same way.

When I read "Where AOA feedback is active, maneuvering stick forces are increased significantly" I don't think a spring is involved.

 

I was probably slightly misleading with an overly simplistic response, apologies.

 

As Vatikus says, if you exceed 22 AoA you'll get some additional force making it harder to pull the stick back further. While it is true that this is something that we can only achieve at home with a force feedback stick, this is an edge of envelope scenario. The vast majority of the time you won't be exceeding 22 AoA, so what lucky-hendrix said applies: a stick with a spring return to center is quite close to the real thing.

 

When I read "Stick force Vs g force stays constant over most of the flight envelope" I think a 50% stick move don't give the same G's depending on the speed, so the forces varie and again no spring only law.

 

Yeah it will, that's what the manual says (with the exception of exceeding 22 AoA).

 

BTW it seems that military FBW widely implicates force feedback, because it's about "active inceptors", "artificial feel units", and even the autopilot send back drives on the stick on several civilian or military aircrafts ("Active sidesticks that provide tactile and visual feedback in response to pilot and autopilot commands are used in the Lockheed Martin F-35 Joint Strike Fighter and Sikorsky CH-53K heavy-lift helicopter")

 

There is also trim that changes stick position for active ones... (several in DCS)

 

I surely misunderstand some things but I clearly think that force feedback is involved in RL for F/A-18

 

There are lots of different FBW jets around with different control systems. The thing they will all have in common is a way of preventing over control (over G) at high speed, while providing sufficient controllability at low speed for manoeuvring, by making the controls feel heavier the faster you go (at least in pitch). This can be achieved in two basic ways:

 

1. control surface position is proportional to stick position. as speed increases stick force per mm increases (harder to move the stick a given distance)
   
2. stick force does not change, however the flight control software will move the control surfaces a reduced distance for a given stick displacement as speed increases
   

 

Point 1 is more conventional. Point 2 is how the F16 works, and arguably the F/A-18C too (with the exception of when 22 AoA is exceeded).

 

I don't believe the F/A-18C stick is back driven when on autopilot, but I can't find anything definitive.

[toutenglisse]

F/A-18's stick force gives linear/constant 3.5 LB of force for each 1G.

But at low speed, even with 100% stick backward, you can't pull much G's. You have to reach a certain speed to maxout the 7.5 G's allowed by FCS. And at very high speed FCS will probably forbide you to put 7.5 G's (because tons of pressure on the wings due to the speed).

So even below the 22Aoa the force on stick will varie because full stick backward won't give the same amount of G's in relation with speed. (If I don't mistake)

F-16's stick doesn't have force at all because it doesn't move (it's a pressure input stick).