Server performance

[zorlac]

There is something that you dont understand Zorlac. During game everything happens on server computer

 

Good god, you really think I dont have a clue, dont you?

 

just ignore me please.

 

Done

[TorwaK]

I wished that you teach me something too. Anyway thanks.

[Groove]

Torwak, please dont compare HLDS/SRCDS to the Lomac MP Engine ;)

[zorlac]

after going outside and taking a deep breath, I`m back, and much more relaxed.

 

The way I see this whole Max_FPS is like this (and this may need to be confirmed or denied by Eagle Dynamics, because they know the code).

 

The server is processing the mission, the objects, the movements, etc. For each loop through the list of things to check and process, it then sends the new data to the clients. Without the Max_FPS option, at the end of each processing loop, it then goes off and generates the new on screen graphics. (This is what a client would want, the fastest game and graphics update). So a server running without Max_FPS and running at (for example) 40fps is processing the game loop 40 times per second, and also updating the screen 40 times a second.

 

Now, my understanding of lomac (unsure about other games, never had a game that stresses the system quite as much) is that with the Max_FPS option, you can tell the server to keep processing the server data, updating its idea of where everything is and what its doing, but at the end of the loop, dont always update its own graphics screen. Sure, send the game data to connected clients as often as it can, so they get a nice data update speed on their system (and their own graphical FPS settings on their own machines), but only update the local graphics so many times per second. If the server is processing the game data and is going through the processing loops 40 times a second, thats the important thing. Updating its own graphics screen is not imporant. Its only a graphical representation of the data it has generated and held internally in memory, and spending time updating its own local graphics display on a machine that no-one is actually looking at is wasting CPU cycles that could be used more usefully to update the internal game data that it is passing back to the clients.

 

So, they way I see it running is:

 

$last_gfx_loop = time();
while ($game_running == 1)
   {
   server_data_loop();
   if ( (time() - $last_gfx_loop) >= (1 / $Max_FPS))
       {
       graphics_update():
       $last_gfx_loop = time();
       }
   }

 

So it would do kind of this:

 

server_data_loop()

server_data_loop()

server_data_loop()

server_data_loop()

server_data_loop()

graphics_update()

server_data_loop()

server_data_loop()

server_data_loop()

server_data_loop()

server_data_loop()

graphics_update()

(etc)

 

Of course if lomac is syncronous, and only updates the server loop on the Max_FPS rate then that kind of sucks. I still see 70-128Kbit traffic per client even with the servers running with this Max_FPS setting applied to the server, so its spitting out data at the same rate to the clients at "Max_FPS = 5" as when I ran the server without the Max_FPS setting, and 5FPS is certainly low enough that even when the connected client "predict" where objects should be, they would see the 0.2 second warps/glitches as they received new data from the server.

 

What I do see is a lot of spare CPU cycles on the server that allows more clients to be connected and processed. These spare CPU cycles are coming from not having to calculate its own 3D objects and display them on it own screen quite as often.

[TorwaK]

Torwak, please dont compare HLDS/SRCDS to the Lomac MP Engine ;)

 

I do talk about PC compatible online multiplayer game servers.

[Groove]

Okay so you speak about a benefit of every Server by increasing the fps up to 1000 ?

 

Valve for example says officially that setting the fps too high can cause strange issues with the client machines while playing their mp games. They fps max is @ 512 and even then you have a max ticrate of 100.

 

As long as we dont know the exact mechanism of the lomac mp engine ( i think its DirectPlay) your suggestions are highly speculative. Tbh i dont even think you can reach 500 fps in lomac even with best hardware, even when you set everything to low.

 

Besides you dont have the need for this extreme high calculations cycles because in Lockon everything is relativly "slow". While in FPS you have miliseconds reaction times which decides between a headshot or a miss you need a high ticrate / fps, and even then you have a certain amount of interpolation between what the server is calculating and what the client is doing. In flight sims the targets are bigger and as long we dont know the interpolation values we can just guess. But so far flying on certain lomac server i never feeled like the enemy ( AI or player ) could dodge my missiles / guns because of the low server fps.

[TorwaK]

Okay so you speak about a benefit of every Server by increasing the fps up to 1000 ?

 

Valve for example says officially that setting the fps too high can cause strange issues with the client machines while playing their mp games.

 

They dont recommend going over 500 fps. Even then you have a maximum ticrate of 100.

 

It's not about Valve, EA or ED. I control many online game servers which works on linux and windows 2003 server platform. If Valve dont suggest use over 500FPS it means because of incompatible hardware components on server computer for pushing hardware clock. o just now I told to Zorlac why Microsoft is limited system ticrate option with 512FPS.

 

By the way I didnt say every server must reach the 1000FPS. I told that you must reach the top of your FPS limit which is depend on your hardware components.

 

If you push hardware clock, your computer system will be under stress completely, like running a human nonstop. The point is your system can do that or not.

[Groove]

Wolverine, please dont add fuel to this as we are trying to get this sorted out on a adult level.

 

TorwaK i dont see the benefit of goint to fps 1000 ( as example ) as the clients recieve just a certain amount of updates and interpolate the rest. And i speak for most / all MP Games. Otherwise if you would transfer 1000 tics a second to every client everybody would need a real huge download bandwith, besides the server which would need a Gbit upload for games like BF2 for example.

[169th_Bat]

(A few guys on here know who my employer is, and roughly how long I`ve been there, and I bet they are grinning like Cheshire cats right now :) )

 

Now you have me intrigued. Who? Been watching this thread transpire.

[TorwaK]

@Groove

 

If you ask me about do we need to push server hardware clock for WOW servers, of course not. But we talk about games which is player must give fast response for other player actions. So in this case server internet bandwith speed and server settings become more important.

 

At lockon your enemy can do sudden manoeuvres and because of lag you can lose enemy, it happens at many server I've notice. The key is server FPS as like server internet bandwith capacity.

 

By the way I do give support for BF2 and BF2142 too... their difference is just single player use 8Kb/s thats all, but they've dedicated server console which works on windows platform. If you ask me I prefer linux 64bit for BF2.

 

Anyway the case is Lockon server here.

 

@Wolverine

 

sorry me buddy. I don't have time for simple surface chats.

[Groove]

The lag u see on Lockon is caused because of the latency and not the server performance. Usually people with pings above 200 start lagging in Lockon because imho there is a not-so-good lag-compansation and interpolation build into the lomac mp enginge.

 

If we take the 504th server which is running with 5 fps i never saw anyone warping / lagging in ping ranges under 200.

 

I still cant follow your argument for fps 1000 :/ But i can live with it ;)

[TorwaK]

The lag u see on Lockon is caused because of the latency and not the server performance. Usually people with pings above 200 start lagging in Lockon because imho there is a not-so-good lag-compansation and interpolation build into the lomac mp enginge.

 

If we take the 504th server which is running with 5 fps i never saw anyone warping / lagging in ping ranges under 200.

 

I still cant follow your argument for fps 1000 :/ But i can live with it ;)

 

 

There is a difference ping time and latecy Groove :) You can ping a game server maybe with 10ms but if server can't process render on time there will be LAG and LOSS because of many players.

 

This conversation will go like that so... no need to explain anymore. I wish to everybody good flights. :pilotfly:

[Groove]

You have surely noticed that i have written the ping the people have on the servers as you can see their ping ingame. You will also have noticed that i used the term latency in a other sentence.

 

Its very kind of you you explained me this stuff ;)

 

Sadly you couldnt explain me the benefit of high fps but i wish you luck and prosperity in your job as Dedicated Server Admin.

[Ross-impress]

Some interesting stuff to read S!

 

Grtz...Ross....

[GGTharos]

I think he's making a potentially incorrect link between simulation ticks and display FPS.

[brewber19]

I still think its fricking hilarious him trying to teach Zorlac about LO servers...LMFAO...ok, no-one knows everything, not even our Z but...this thread had me laughing all the way through.

 

@ Groove: we know Wolverine of old :) and he knows us VERY well so, like him, LMFAO.

 

@ Wolverine: greetings matey, good to see you around, hope the nippers are fine.

 

@ Zorlac: Don't you DARE change a thing...ignore the Crazies and don't smoke what he's smoking. I love our servers, they're fine, just as they are!

[Frostie]

(A few guys on here know who my employer is, and roughly how long I`ve been there, and I bet they are grinning like Cheshire cats right now :) )

Now you have me intrigued. Who? Been watching this thread transpire.

He could tell you but unfortunately you'd need to be Erased after.:D

[504smudge]

WOLVERIE!!!!!! lo buddy jeez long time glad to hear your ok and get your arse back to teh sqn thats an ORDER

[169th_Bat]

He could tell you but unfortunately you'd need to be Erased after.:D

 

Hmmm and I always fancied being shredded. Don`t forget the Green Cross Code mate. :thumbup:

[169th_Rabbit]

LOL I think I will only offer my 2 cents if asked in this case. Just so people know where I stand. I currently work for a data center and own a game hosting/custom server company. I run the line the 169th server runs on. YES it is 50MB/s Upload DEDICATED to just that BOX. I will offer up my help to anyone that would like help. Until asked I am staying out of the flame war.:thumbup: