DCS: MiG-23MLA by RAZBAM

[pepin1234]

Well but without R-73 or MLD version set an MLA against F-16 block 52 could be heart breaker. The people will not stop to think it is just an MLA. They will throw in the mission because it is a flogger and that’s it. I hope RAZBAM is willing to do this exemption as ~500 Soviet MLA were converted/upgraded to MLD version. At least R-73 can help a bit. No SPO-15 RWR but just with R-73 add RAZBAM keep cockpit MLA design. Not a big deal

Edited August 15, 2019 by pepin1234

[pepin1234]

E.g. RAZBAM can name this fictional payload as: “FICTIONAL Soviet/Syrian” in the mission editor A-A payload.

[AeriaGloria]

We are getting an option for SPO-15 though. I’m happy with our MLA staying a MLA

[Fri13]

We are getting an option for SPO-15 though. I’m happy with our MLA staying a MLA

 

Option or defined?

 

Didn't the MLD receive SPO-15 but MLA had SPO-10?

[pepin1234]

With R-73 available in payload option we will have the independent choice to balance the close combate in an misbalanced server with F-16 block 52. They will say it is something to do with mission designer, the serious player will say is a matter of simulate the real actions as close as possible, so if the developer give us this option we are free to decide.

 

Although the next gen fighters were delivered for the Soviet forces, this move of MLD versions with R-73 was convenient for that moment. The real matter was that Bulgaria received the MLD version because they were close to the Turkish F-16 and the Syrians was surrounded by two countries with F-16. The Soviets were intending a balance of forces for a better dogfighter enemy as F-16. USA did the same in Venezuela when Cubans received Mig-23 and so on.

Edited August 16, 2019 by pepin1234

[Bogey Jammer]

Option or defined?

 

Didn't the MLD receive SPO-15 but MLA had SPO-10?

 

 

I've read somewhere that SPO-15 was retrofitted to some MLA specimens.

[foxbat155]

With R-73 available in payload option we will have the independent choice to balance the close combate in an misbalanced server with F-16 block 52. They will say it is something to do with mission designer, the serious player will say is a matter of simulate the real actions as close as possible, so if the developer give us this option we are free to decide.

 

Although the next gen fighters were delivered for the Soviet forces, this move of MLD versions with R-73 was convenient for that moment. The real matter was that Bulgaria received the MLD version because they were close to the Turkish F-16 and the Syrians was surrounded by two countries with F-16. The Soviets were intending a balance of forces for a better dogfighter enemy as F-16. USA did the same in Venezuela when Cubans received Mig-23 and so on.

 

 

Soviets didn't had any intend to reinforce any WP army over any comfortable for them level. In 1982 Bulgaria bought three MiG-25RB and one MiG-25RU, but because those aircrafts were expensive in service and they had only four of them, and because economy problems in late 80's, those were swaped with USSR for five MiG-23 in 1991. At that moment Floggers were out of production ( end in 1985 ), and Soviets hads in service only MLD so this variant went for a swap.

 

 

 

I've read somewhere that SPO-15 was retrofitted to some MLA specimens.

 

 

From original MLA's, only iraqi aircrafts were modernized with SPO-15 during Iran-Iraq war.

Edited August 16, 2019 by foxbat155

[pepin1234]

Bulgaria never received new made MLD? only Syria? How do you know they never talked about the needs of certain geographic reinforcements? I don't believe this delivery was for economy reasons. Mig-25 was expensive, but this exchange doesn't justify the more than 10 MLD units to Bulgaria tactically speaking make any sense having only 4 Mig-25 when in the other side of the Black Sea was a bigger fleet of everything. I can mention other examples, but I will not cuz this thread is about Mig-23.

Edited August 16, 2019 by pepin1234

[foxbat155]

Bulgaria, like Syria and Libia, got export downgraded MLD's variant, which official name was MiG-23MLAE2 or "product 23-22" (no aerodynamical changes, no chaff/flare dispensers, heavilly downgraded radar, no R-73 missiles, extra SPO-15 in place of SPO-10), and later those five extra original full MLD's.

How I know?. Because in first place Soviets wanted control those countries, not make them partners. Soviets were pushing WP countries to stop many local arms creating initiatives, trying to make them completely dependent on their own supplies. In every WP country Soviets had several military bases, so local forces reinforcement wasn't so important and Soviets always had equipment one generation forward. One example: R-60 ( not R-60M ) show up in Soviet inventory in 1973, in rest airforces of WP in 1985..........twelve years later. Every contract with USSR was one big unknown, you never know what you will get and with what standard. Great example are our Polish Su-22's, we got part of them without chaff/flare system because Soviets need them to quick equip their aircrafts and helicopters in Afganistan, they promised send them later but this never happend.

Edited August 16, 2019 by foxbat155

[AeriaGloria]

You’re a wealth of knowledge Foxbat155!

[pepin1234]

foxbat155@ I never though those MLDs versions were so downgraded like so. wow! then R-73 was out... SPO-15 only then. that mean only visual changes in the cockpit layout, bad news.

 

about how behave Soviets for WP countries. it is a different matter. but thanks for the info.

[Harlikwin]

Yeah, the soviets never gave rotten shit about the WP they mostly were interested in plundering and exploiting WP members. Remember kids its a great alliance if your member countries invade you if look like you are about to step out of line... And Foxbat is right, they basically offered sales of lower end gear (or mid end gear for WP members) in order to **** over native defense industries, though it didn't always work. The Czechs for example built far better "license built" versions of the T72 than the soviets, and their modernization of the T55AM was far better than the soviet ones.

 

I'm not the least bit surprised that the export MLD's were about on par with the soviet MLA.

[Cyrus]

The WP states never fielded the most modern equipment that theoretically would have then just become available to elite units of the Soviet Union.

 

Here is a nice example of boastful DDR footage from 1983 of a MiG-23MF unit operating from a road side base. Take a look at what missiles the aircraft are carrying. Theoretically a MiG-23MF could be equipped with the R-23 and R-60, but instead these planes have R-3S and R-13M missiles under their wings.

 

 

I really do not understand the desire by some posters to make the aircraft into something that it has never been, preferably some late upgrade package that was never fielded in any meaningful number. It is like bright red lipstick on 75-year old woman, it does not make it attractive, only weird.

 

If you want to be competitive versus a F-16C in multiplayer, be a much superior pilot or fly a Su-27.

[Harlikwin]

It simple, I think pepin just wants something competitive in MP for red air. The mig 23 is about the most modern red air that will be made in the near future so he wants the real ultimate version of it. The only other vaguely red air coming is the JF17 which actually is modern but it doesnt really "do it" for most people.

[Cyrus]

On multiplayer servers I see MiG-21bis pilots shooting down F/A-18Cs, which requires skill and insight. If you want an easier time, better fly the MiG-29 or Su-27. If one desires a R-73 on a MiG-23MLA, I doubt there much to complain about a non-clickable cockpit ruining the immersion.

[pepin1234]

@Cyrus I guess you know the Soviet MLD version was able to carry R-73. That’s why I thought MLDs from Bulgaria and Syria can IRL do some combat with R-73. As you can see before was confirmed that This countries MLDs units never were R-73 ready. So I have nothing else to ask about. If you already know we will get in the near future the Syrian map and F-16, then is not hard to imagine we can do some fun missions with Mig-29A and Mig-23MLA (with a fictional R-73 to simulate de real Syrian MLDs). Again as we already know those export MLDs was downgraded then R-73 is out and it is a shame. But anyways we will keep as real as possible for the best simulation.

 

I really like the R-60m. In a decent rear engagement should be deadly for a single engine as Mirage and F-16. We will see ones F-16 is launch. For sure will be fun.

[foxbat155]

foxbat155@ I never though those MLDs versions were so downgraded like so. wow! then R-73 was out... SPO-15 only then. that mean only visual changes in the cockpit layout, bad news.

 

about how behave Soviets for WP countries. it is a different matter. but thanks for the info.

 

 

Bulgarian MLAE2:

 

 

 

 

Libyan MLAE2:

 

 

 

 

and Syrian MLAE2:

 

 

 

 

those aircrafts had radar called N-0008E what suggesting export variant ( E from экспортная what means for export ) of MLD's N-008, but for sure was downgraded in ranges, search angles and work speed:

 

 

 

 

Instrument panel photo of libyan MLAE2:

 

 

The WP states never fielded the most modern equipment that theoretically would have then just become available to elite units of the Soviet Union.

 

Here is a nice example of boastful DDR footage from 1983 of a MiG-23MF unit operating from a road side base. Take a look at what missiles the aircraft are carrying. Theoretically a MiG-23MF could be equipped with the R-23 and R-60, but instead these planes have R-3S and R-13M missiles under their wings.

 

 

Most WP MiG-23MF even wasn't wired for R-60/R-60M family, in case of Polish AF only last batch had all equipment for them, all earliers had to be rebuilt later after 1985, no one export MiG-23ML hadn't R-60M in their weaponry, only oridinary R-60's, R-60M was sold abroad first time with MiG-29 exclusively, for countries like India or Yugoslavia started with 1986. So no one from WP countries, had in inventory short range all aspect dogfight missile before 1989 when MiG-29 showed up.

[pepin1234]

Bulgarian MLAE2:

 

 

 

 

What kind of Rail are those. Look like P-72-1D rail pylons for R-73?

[foxbat155]

No, those are standard P-61-1 launchers for R60/60M family, over "oridinary" MiG-23ML/MLA those aircafts have only N-008E radar, R-24 missiles, SPO-15, and probably modernized KN-23-1 nav system instead standard KN-23, last aircrafts even maybe "Klistron" nav system but no photos of cockpits so this is hard to verificate.

Edited August 17, 2019 by foxbat155

[AeriaGloria]

Sobering reminder of manueving capabilities with that AOA gauge and visible limit compared to 21

[TLTeo]

Sobering reminder of manueving capabilities with that AOA gauge and visible limit compared to 21

 

 

Interesting detail. I guess that this is an MLD with the aerodynamic improvements then?

 

 

 

 

If so it really made a huge difference!

[AeriaGloria]

Holy crap, i didn’t see the different gauge in the different cockpit, that’s insane

[foxbat155]

Yea, differences in aerodynamic capabilities between MiG-23's variants were quite big. Here few examples:

 

 

AOA normal and stall limit (local AOA).

 

 

Wing load and thrust/weight ratio.

 

 

Climb speed.

 

 

Acceleration from 600 to 1000 km/h.

 

 

According russian sources during tests MiG-23MLD was able achieve 45 deg local AOA, normal service AOA safe limit was set to local 33 deg.

[Harlikwin]

What is m/c? " c is seconds?

[AeriaGloria]

The one using m/c is climb rate