[REPORTED] INLET ICE Warning message

[Rainmaker]

So why does NATOPS indicate you can? You might be right, but you're not explaining this at all well.

 

You are looking at follow-on procedures as part of the checklist items to protect the motor...not to identify whether a Inlet Ice caution should or shouldn’t exist in the first place. Everyone is trying to do the latter of the two right now. That’s what I’m trying to get at, there’s a difference between reading a manual and understanding the purposes behind it.

[Rainmaker]

I got one better, next time you walk by CTK, listen for some dumb 3 speeds MAN #, and downgrade the X (pilot's write EVERYthing up as that in AMC) to a diagonal using theirs

 

Ha! You guys need to train your debrief better, that should never make it to the forms. :)

[Flamin_Squirrel]

You are looking at follow-on procedures as part of the checklist items to protect the motor...not to identify whether a Inlet Ice caution should or shouldn’t exist in the first place. Everyone is trying to do the latter of the two right now. That’s what I’m trying to get at, there’s a difference between reading a manual and understanding the purposes behind it.

 

Ah I see that now, thanks.

 

Never the less, if inlet temp is reading is reading high and there's no visible moisture, it doesn't make logical sense that we should be getting a caution (within reason, I follow what you said earlier).

[Crew Dog]

Ha! You guys need to train your debrief better, that should never make it to the forms. :)

 

Like I said, heavy drivers write everything up and it's almost always an X, and our debrief are usually rejects we don't want touching a jet. Back to the subject at hand though: how I see the indication is that the INLET ICE sensor is within DCS parameters to accumulate buildup (hence throwing the code) not necessarily that the blades are iced up (but is showing that they COULD become so or be FOD'd out by shedding ice.) As a precaution/adherance to realism and strict -1 procedures, I would suggest following the "NO ICE ON LEF" section of the corrective actions. If all it takes is a shallow climb to above FL250 and a little more gas to prevent shelling out an engine, easy prevention IMAO.

Edited July 9, 2018 by Crew Dog

[Subferro]

Ah I see that now, thanks.

 

Never the less, if inlet temp is reading is reading high and there's no visible moisture, it doesn't make logical sense that we should be getting a caution (within reason, I follow what you said earlier).

 

I think to put this another way, if inlet temp is high and there’s no visible moisture, ice shouldn’t be forming. The caution is agnostic to conditions, the caution only means there is ice. The problem is that we’re getting the caution (and therefore getting ice) under conditions that shouldn’t cause ice to form. The caution in the game may work perfectly, but ice formation is happening too easily.

[Flamin_Squirrel]

I think to put this another way, if inlet temp is high and there’s no visible moisture, ice shouldn’t be forming. The caution is agnostic to conditions, the caution only means there is ice. The problem is that we’re getting the caution (and therefore getting ice) under conditions that shouldn’t cause ice to form. The caution in the game may work perfectly, but ice formation is happening too easily.

 

I thought that's what I said, but yes :D

[Rainmaker]

Ah I see that now, thanks.

 

Never the less, if inlet temp is reading is reading high and there's no visible moisture, it doesn't make logical sense that we should be getting a caution (within reason, I follow what you said earlier).

 

Depends, but there again, you can’t really say that directly. Never tested in DCS but things like your engine inlet temp are subject to influence by things like engine heat, etc so what’s going on at the motor doesn’t mean it’s the same elsewhere.

 

I would disagree on visable moisture. Ever seen frost on a clear day? There’s still moisture content in the air, although there is surely less chance for buildup. It also gets cold pretty quick at altitude as has been discussed before.

 

There again, as I have said already in the thread, I’m not saying there isn’t a bug...I’m saying people are using the wrong methods to test and justify one being there.

[Crew Dog]

I would disagree on visable moisture. Ever seen frost on a clear day? There’s still moisture content in the air, although there is surely less chance for buildup. It also gets cold pretty quick at altitude as has been discussed before.

 

I can piggyback on this: Tankers always have frost on the underside of their wings on landing, even when they come back from the desert. Maybe we're getting more realistic humidity factors in the sim, or something that doesn't necessarily warrant its own blurb in a changelog?

[Knives]

I did some tests. 1st one clear skies with 30C and 29.92inHg and the 2nd test with 40C on different altitudes. 15,000 to 20,000 MSL.

 

 

I found that whenever the atmospheric temp goes below zero. The INLET ICE warning comes on after some time.

 

 

Maybe the logic for detecting icing conditions in current DCS depends only on atmospheric temp at the current position.

 

 

INLET TEMP depends on M speed and atmospheric temp.

 

 

I checked for atmospheric temp by adding a radio item which runs a script and print out the temp and pressure at my current point in space.

 

 

Ambient temp and pressure at the current point in space at right top corner.

 

Weather settings are in left top corner.

 

mission file is included if anybody care to do some tests.

F-18 - INLET ICE - 40.miz

Edited July 11, 2018 by Knives

[Rainmaker]

If you were able to retrieve that data... much better test. Also would confirm that the sim models independent temps for atmospheric and engine inlet.

[Rainmaker]

Turning the eng heat on has no effect on the inlet ice light...as already mentioned. This is correct bahavior and how it works in real life.

[Rainmaker]

Have you flown the hornet? No, so dont tell us how it is in real life.

 

 

No, I just literally work the system for a living actually and have done so for the last 20 years of my existence. Your credentials?

[Knives]

No.

 

I flew for 1.5hs with pitot heat and eng anti ice on all the time and the ice warning came on and off like crazy every 5 minutes.

From my test switching on Eng Anti Ice has no effect whatsoever.

 

How I tell. Because Eng Anti Ice draws hot air (I think from stage 4) and inject it in the inlet.

 

If it is implemented you will notice a raise in EGT. But currently it has no effect on EGT so I guess it is not implemented.

[Rainmaker]

If it is implemented you will notice a raise in EGT. But currently it has no effect on EGT so I guess it is not implemented.

 

Engine inlet temp difference? Just curious

[Knives]

Engine inlet temp difference? Just curious

No, you would notice a difference in Exhaust Gas Temp (EGT).

[Rainmaker]

No, you would notice a difference in Exhaust Gas Temp (EGT).

 

Being that the nose cone and veins are what is heated to warm inlet air, I would expect inlet temp to rise, not EGT. Using bleed air normally drops EGT (same reason ECS bleed air shutoff valves effect EGT IRL), the fact that it’s injested back into the motor, I would expect relatively no change. You aren’t adding anything, only redirecting.

[Flamin_Squirrel]

Being that the nose cone and veins are what is heated to warm inlet air, I would expect inlet temp to rise, not EGT. Using bleed air normally drops EGT (same reason ECS bleed air shutoff valves effect EGT IRL), the fact that it’s injested back into the motor, I would expect relatively no change. You aren’t adding anything, only redirecting.

 

Bleed air use normally leads to EGT rise IIRC. Less air through the turbine for cooling. Anti ice may be different thought.

[Rainmaker]

Bleed air use normally leads to EGT rise IIRC. Less air through the turbine for cooling. Anti ice may be different thought.

 

Opposite, shutting off bleed air causes EGT rise

[Rainmaker]

Bleed air use normally leads to EGT rise IIRC. Less air through the turbine for cooling. Anti ice may be different thought.

 

 

Sorry...me backwards

[Rainmaker]

I did some tests. 1st one clear skies with 30C and 29.92inHg and the 2nd test with 40C on different altitudes. 15,000 to 20,000 MSL.

 

 

I found that whenever the atmospheric temp goes below zero. The INLET ICE warning comes on after some time.

 

 

Maybe the logic for detecting icing conditions in current DCS depends only on atmospheric temp at the current position.

 

 

INLET TEMP depends on M speed and atmospheric temp.

 

 

I checked for atmospheric temp by adding a radio item which runs a script and print out the temp and pressure at my current point in space.

 

 

mission file is included if anybody care to do some tests.

 

Curious....were these with engine heat on or off?

[Knives]

Curious....were these with engine heat on or off?

Anti ice was off.

 

But, I repeated the same with Eng Anti Ice on. I got the same results.

[Rainmaker]

Anti ice was off.

 

But, I repeated the same with Eng Anti Ice on. I got the same results.

 

Roger. Just wondered since the L HEAT/R HEAT cautions weren't there in the photos.

[Doum76]

Seems the latest update brought more issues than it solved...

 

 

Welcome to Open Beta World and Early Acess. It'S part of the deal.

[Doum76]

None of this happens in real life. There is not one turbine in the world that would behave like you say.

 

First the electronic computer will raise fuel to maintain rpm when bleed air is increased, second just by using bleed air you have less cooling. Plus other factos that you wont understand.

 

The fact that it isnt injected into the "motor" is why EGT increases as well!!! Less air for the same mixture, basic principle of continous combustion like turbines.

 

Stop confusing everyone with absolutely wrong facts, it makes this thread very difficult for new readers.

 

 

thanks

 

 

Hi sir,

 

 

Since you seem to know a lot, i'll ask you, what should i do when this happens? I did my mission in Persian Gulf, so pretty hot, starting HOT Aircraft around 20 000 AGL for Air/Air traning, and after a few mintues this comes on. What should i do since it's way too technical for me, i end up doing stupid stuff like turning Ptot on, Engine Heat On, and most Heat i can find even the defogger cuz i love to hear the sound raise tune :P in other words i have no clues at all what i am doing and i want to know how to fix it.

 

 

 

 

Thanks!

[=Panther=]

LOL, Rain;

Are you having flashbacks? Feels like troubleshooting with pilots again? Just CND it, it will be ok. :D

 

CND on the ground, write-up IFOC DUE. :megalol: