Very strange bug since last firmware update - T50 Stick

[Whisper]

Since I upgraded my T50 Stick firmware last sunday, I face a very strange (and annoying ) thing.

I noticed that just after the upgrade, jumping in my Mi8, each time I tried to reach radio (via trigger button on the Mi8), I had a unusual button sound played. I appeared the thumb button on the stick was also pushed at the same time the trigger was pushed. I try to use the same mapping as IRL on my DCS configurations, so the DCS Mi8 thumb button (trim button) is the T50 thumb button for me as well. So I was pushing the trim button when I was contacting radio, for some reason....

 

Looking deeper into it via the Virpil configurator, I saw the following :

Each button on the T50 is assigned a phsical ID. You can then map the pushing of "physical Id X" to "logical Id" (let's call it that way) Y being sent to Windows/DCS.

Typically on my setup, trigger detent (stage 1) is physical Id 8 and mapped to logical Id 1, thumb button is physical Id 7 and mapped to logical Id 17. For the completion of my post, I'll list several other buttons : trigger detent (Stage 2) is physical Id 1 and mapped to logical Id 2, retractable trigger is physical Id 2 and mapped to "I don't remember".

So what I saw happening in the Virpil configurator is that for trigger detent (stage 1), thumb button and retractable trigger, when I push them, I see the corresponding physical Id being activated, but ALSO the physical Id - 1 being activated. Ie : when I push the trigger, the physical Id 8 is triggered (which triggers 'button 1' in DCS), but ALSO physical Id 7 (which triggers 'button 17' in DCS).

When I push the retractable trigger (Id 2), I have both Id 2 and Id 1 (trigger detent stage 2) being triggered

In the Virpil configurator, this behavior is not consistent, sometimes only the correct button is triggered, sometimes, button + 'Id -1' are pushed. I need to spam the button to see the strange behavior.

In DCS, it looks like both buttons are caught everytime, and from what I see the second, wrong Id is being triggered on button deactivation.

It doesn't happen for all buttons, Hats, PoV, 2-ways and the 2 buttons bunched together are OK, the rest has wrong behavior.

 

The behavior looks a lot like a hardware fault to me, but :

* it happened just after a firmware upgrade where I didn't touch the hardware, hardware mishandling didn't happen on that period.

* The "ID - 1" thing looks a lot like a software bug :)

 

From what I understood of it, I'm running a PCB version 5 (I think you see this by the name of the configuration file that the Virpil configurator proposes you after you upgraded firmware, '.cnfv05' means PCB v5, '.cnfv06' means PCB v6, etc....)

 

So, 2 questions :

* Has anyone seen such behavior? I guess not or we would hear of this sooner :)

* I stupidely have overwritten my old Virpil configurator / firmware files in the upgrade process. I want to confirm if it's a firmware issue or not, I guess downgrading the firmware to previous version would prove that. Has anyone still the older firmware version somewhere available? It's not on Virpil site anymore.

 

Ofc, I opened a ticket, so I'm also waiting on it.

[unknown]

....

So, 2 questions :

* Has anyone seen such behavior? I guess not or we would hear of this sooner :)

* I stupidely have overwritten my old Virpil configurator / firmware files in the upgrade process. I want to confirm if it's a firmware issue or not, I guess downgrading the firmware to previous version would prove that. Has anyone still the older firmware version somewhere available? It's not on Virpil site anymore.

 

Ofc, I opened a ticket, so I'm also waiting on it.

I use the same(?) config for the MI-8 as you. Trigger first stage is the Radio and Trigger second stage is the Intercom, i also use the thumb button for trimming and the pinky(?) button for trimmer reset. I can't reproduce your observation. Everytime i use Trigger Stage 1/2 and the thumb button only these buttons are recognised by DCS, no double buttons or two at the same time...tested it a couple minutes ago in the latest DCS OpenBeta(in Game).

I updated my FW of the T-50CM and the T-50 Throttle recently. I don't know if this is the latest version, or if that is the version at all. :D VPC-JOY-180828

[Whisper]

Yes 180828 is the latest one. Maybe it's something to do with the PCB version I have. Would you still have, by chance, the old version of the Virpil Software / FW somewhere on you disk ? :) I can"t it anywhere on mine to try for a downgrade

[unknown]

Yes 180828 is the latest one. Maybe it's something to do with the PCB version I have. Would you still have, by chance, the old version of the Virpil Software / FW somewhere on you disk ? :) I can"t it anywhere on mine to try for a downgrade

 

Unfortunately i deleted every previous version. :cry:

Maybe Cyph3r can help here?

[Karon]

This firmware is almost one year old: https://www.dropbox.com/s/uvhangp4x606f3b/Firmware_vpc_%5BCNT-ATMEGA32U4%5D.hexc?dl=0

 

 

Mr V sent it to me when one of the two sensors stopped working (it has hardware failure, btw). Try if you want.

[Whisper]

Thank you Karon, but unfortunately that's only the firmware file, if I downgrade to it, my current version of VPC Configuration Tool will tell me it's incompatible and I won't be able to re-sync until I re-upgrade to the latest firmware.

If you also have the corresponding Configuration Tool version that would be great, otherwise, I'm in touch with VPC Support now, we're going through divers tests and check what could be wrong

 

Thanks a lot for the help anyway

[Thomasew]

Hi,

 

 

Here's a link to the complete VPC_Light vers. 1.01, .. from January.

 

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/znnw96q7cq9z9j2/VPC_Configurator_Light_1.01.zip?dl=0

 

 

Hope it helps you out.

 

 

Cheers

Tom

Edited September 13, 2018 by Thomasew

[Whisper]

Hi,

 

 

Here's a link to the complete VPC_Light vers. 1.01, .. from January.

 

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/znnw96q7cq9z9j2/VPC_Configurator_Light_1.01.zip?dl=0

 

 

Hope it helps you out.

 

 

Cheers

Tom

 

Thanks a lot. I downgraded, and it made the problem disappear. So it is either a firmware issue (but strange that I would be the only one having it) or a very subtle hardware issue that only brings defect since the latest firmware version. I'd guess the latter, I see no reason to be the only one suffering this issue.

It helped a ton, thanks a lot again!

[Thomasew]

Thanks a lot. I downgraded, and it made the problem disappear. So it is either a firmware issue (but strange that I would be the only one having it) or a very subtle hardware issue that only brings defect since the latest firmware version. I'd guess the latter, I see no reason to be the only one suffering this issue.

It helped a ton, thanks a lot again!

 

 

 

Hi,

 

You may not be the only one, .. :)

 

I upgraded my MT-50 about 3 or 4 weeks ago, with the 20180807 firmware, and I seem to recall also having some oddity with button presses etc..

 

.. but, I can't remember exactly what the button presses were doing, just that they seemed incorrect. I also have a vague memory of using the old VPC Tester (1.01), .. and the buttons seemed ok.

 

I was actually more concerned about the name change, .. i.e. from VPC- MongoosT-50 to .. VPC Flightstick, .. and thinking about the implications of it being identified as a new device, .. and all my DCS & iL2 configs not working anymore.

 

.. on that basis, I rolled back to the older firmware (20180101, .. the one I posted)

 

So, inasmuch as I can't be certain exactly what button was doing what, .. I did notice something odd.

 

I may try the newer software/firmware again this week, .. or, wait until my MT-50 throttle arrives, .. and try it then.

 

 

Did Virpil have any ideas/solutions for you?

 

 

 

Cheers

Tom

Edited September 13, 2018 by Thomasew

[Whisper]

We're onto debugging. Awesome support by them, tbh.

I'll keep updated

[Karon]

Damn I though I've uploaded the whole folder. My bad!

[Thomasew]

We're onto debugging. Awesome support by them, tbh.

I'll keep updated

 

 

Hi Whisper,

 

 

Thanks, .. although I decided to throw caution to the wind this morning, .. and go through the update process again, .. this time with the 20180828 version of the software/firmware.

 

Once the MT-50 was all updated and profiles loaded etc., .. the one thing I noticed is the disparity between the 'Physicals buttons state' panel on the main VPC Configuration Tool screen [VPC-JOY-180828], .. and the VPC Joystick Tester Tool.

 

For example on the 'Physical buttons state' panel, .. I noted the following:-

 

Trigger 1st click = 8

Trigger 2nd click = 1

Analog brake = 3

 

.. whereas on the VPC Joystick Tester Tool, .. everything is normal.

 

Trigger 1st click = 1

Trigger 2nd click = 2

Analog brake = 19

 

So, all correct.

 

.. and whereas, the VPC Joystick tester correctly shows the correct button mapping for everything, .. the 'Physical buttons state' shows the buttons all over the place.

 

Now, .. I believe that this is what I probably saw a few weeks ago, when I first updated the firmware, .. and am wondering if this is not what you are seeing.

 

I have no idea why this disparity exists between the 'Physical button state' and 'actual' button output. It could be that there is some 'transparent' internal re-mapping going on.

 

.. still a little confusing.

 

One other thing I noticed about the 2 different versions of the VPC Configuration Tool, .. is that, .. with the older version (180101), .. as soon as you run it, .. your MT-50 is online and synced, ..

 

.. whereas, .. with the new version (180828 ), .. when you run it, .. your MT-50 status is .. 'NOT SYNC'.

 

.. and you have to .. LOAD DEVICE PROFILE .. to SYNC it.

 

 

Perhaps Cyph3r can provide some insight into these anomalies. :)

 

 

Anyway, .. I'm not sure if any of this will be of any assistance to you.

 

I also have PCB 05, .. and have tried 'spamming' the buttons etc., .. and, all seem ok.

 

 

 

EDIT: Oops, .. just noticed there's a new manual available, .. which explains the SYNC/NOT SYNC things, as well as some other stuff. :)

 

 

Cheers

Tom

Edited September 14, 2018 by Thomasew

[mdee]

I have similar issue with T2/T3 throttle switches.

 

The intermittently switch themselves ON/OFF, See attached pic. yellow marked presses happened without me touch the throttle at all after about 20 minutes ov VPC tester running.

 

I have reconfigured them to act as separate button in up/down position.

 

I don't believe it's hardware issue. Ticket logged, but no response so far.

[Whisper]

Little update : I guess Virpil is a bit puzzled by the issue :)

First of all, once your ticket is taken care of (which can be 2 or 3 days, but seeing how seriously they take each ticket, that's normal, I'd say), support is awesome. Kudos to VPC for this, you get contacted in off hours, they respond live, check directly your configs over TeamViewer, etc... I'm probably praising too soon, since issue is not resolved, but the support action talk for themselves. Great team.

 

So.... We've checked out everything with support, I even have had a new version of the firmware to test , unfortunately that didn't fix the issue. Then week-end came by.

Since I have a working older version (thanks again Thomasew), I've not been that pressing on them :)

 

@Thomasew : yes, there is an internal binding that you can configure in the software between the physical Id of buttons, and the logical Id that are presented to Windows . You can change that in the Buttons configuration of the CPV Software.

 

@mdee : that looks similar, but not exactly the same.

For me, it's when a button is pressed that another button physical Id is being spammed ON/OFF.

Look in the screenshot, I keep "button 19" pressed and software sees, between "button 19 ON" and "button 19 OFF", the button 8 being ON/OFF all the time. A bit of same as you, but happens as soon as Button X is pressed, and continuously.

[mdee]

Yeah, I remember having similar thing going when I did one of my configurations - unfortunately I don't have it anymore and what I remember is to vague to file a bug report.

 

I am sure this will be resolved - mine is hard to recreate as it happens randomly, sometimes after 1 minute, sometimes need to wait for 20+ minutes. I've reverted the switches to default and no issues, but it's not ideal :)