Brunner Force Feedback Joystick Base

[markturner1960]

Wow, thats really in the crazy levels of cost.....I love my hobby and spend thousnads on gear, but it cant be THAT much better......some greater forces might on occasion be nice, but not all the time, across the board ( it gets tiring tio fly) and how I have my CLSe set up is pretty nice......

[Berniyh]

36 minutes ago, markturner1960 said:

Wow, thats really in the crazy levels of cost.....I love my hobby and spend thousnads on gear, but it cant be THAT much better......some greater forces might on occasion be nice, but not all the time, across the board ( it gets tiring tio fly) and how I have my CLSe set up is pretty nice......

Not only that, but for some applications (i.e. helicopters) it is actually better to have rather lower forces for higher precision.

[markturner1960]

Also, does anyone here who uses a Brunner stick know what the various messages you get in the GUI mean, such as:

"15.01.2023 at 09:10:49 A request to send or receive data was disallowed because the socket had already been shut down in that direction with a previous shutdown call
15.01.2023 at 09:31:54 An operation was attempted on something that is not a socket"

I am keen to understand whats going on.......I know for certain if I send in a email to Brunner support, they wont answer.....

[Gunfreak]

On 1/4/2023 at 2:27 AM, Shrimp said:

Yes, they sell CLS-P to private individuals.

 

CLS-E

Quality - *****

General layout - *****

Precision - ***** PERFECT

Smoothness - *****

Max force - *** (could be a bit higher - 7 Nm)

Sustained force - * (unacceptably low - made for civilian non demanding tasks - got a bit better with newer firmware)

General force behavior - *** (weak force at the very center - should be snugger)

 

CLS-P

Quality - *****

General layout - **** (connectors are to the side and the cables may interfere with the surroundings and bend too much)

Precision - ***** PERFECT

Smoothness - *** (the motors are heavy with a grainy feeling when not producing torque - maybe could have a function to self alleviate its own weight)

Max force - ***** PERFECT (it can effectively simulate shorter mechanical stops)

Sustained force - ***** PERFECT

General force behavior - *** (weak force at the very center - should be snugger)

 

 

Can the P model use virpil?

Only the E model specifically say it compatible with Virpil controls.

And p is only sold with a joystick. 

Except for price is there any any reason to choose E over P?

[Berniyh]

1 hour ago, Gunfreak said:

Can the P model use virpil?

Only the E model specifically say it compatible with Virpil controls.

And p is only sold with a joystick. 

Except for price is there any any reason to choose E over P?

The grip is optional for the CLS-P as well, it's stated in the description:

[quote]Either the A320 Grip, the BRUNNER Jet Grip or an adaption of any customer-provided Grip is easily mountable.[/code]

So if you want to use that with a Virpil grip, then they will make it work one way or another (if it is not already compatible).

Reasons why you would choose the E are: price, size (that thing is really big and the cyclic version is even bigger), weight and possibly smoothness (according to the post you quoted. Personally, I haven't tried)

Edited January 21, 2023 by Berniyh

[Gunfreak]

7 minutes ago, Berniyh said:

The grip is optional for the CLS-P as well, it's stated in the description:

[quote]Either the A320 Grip, the BRUNNER Jet Grip or an adaption of any customer-provided Grip is easily mountable.[/code]

So if you want to use that with a Virpil grip, then they will make it work one way or another (if it is not already compatible).

Reasons why you would choose the E are: price, size (that thing is really big and the cyclic version is even bigger), weight and possibly smoothness (according to the post you quoted. Personally, I haven't tried)

 

Will the E be able to handle a virpil grip with 20cm extender? I read it has problems with the Warthog grip

[Berniyh]

Depends on the amount of force you want to have and on what you're doing. Generally, the CLS-E is not great with extensions.

Personally, I don't need an extension on the CLS-E, since it is already very precise, but that's of course personal preference.

[Gunfreak]

14 minutes ago, Berniyh said:

Depends on the amount of force you want to have and on what you're doing. Generally, the CLS-E is not great with extensions.

Personally, I don't need an extension on the CLS-E, since it is already very precise, but that's of course personal preference.

I've been flying with an extention for two years. I love not having to use curves etc. Would feel very weird going back to small stick. 

[Berniyh]

I don't use curves either. But as I said, it's of course down to personal preference.

If you don't insist on using high forces, it might work out. Maybe someone here is using the CLS-E with an extension and can say more.

[Gunfreak]

16 minutes ago, Berniyh said:

I don't use curves either. But as I said, it's of course down to personal preference.

If you don't insist on using high forces, it might work out. Maybe someone here is using the CLS-E with an extension and can say more.

I already have a virpil grip and extender.  So it no worse than an testing with or without. No extra cost to buy the extender. 

[Gunfreak]

My brunner has  been sent.

Are virpil and TM the only grips that work with it?

I know Winwing doesn't work. But what about VKB?

[Abburo]

12 hours ago, Gunfreak said:

My brunner has  been sent.

Are virpil and TM the only grips that work with it?

I know Winwing doesn't work. But what about VKB?

VKB are not supported. I was asking Brunner a year ago this question.

[Abburo]

@Gunfreakjust forgot to add, both Alpha and TM from Virpil are supported. I have tested both of them and they were fine.

[Gunfreak]

23 minutes ago, Abburo said:

@Gunfreakjust forgot to add, both Alpha and TM from Virpil are supported. I have tested both of them and they were fine.

Thanks, I have Virpil already, but ordred a shorter extender and the F14 grip, but virpil is way behind on it's shipping(like 2 months i appears) so just looking for other alternatives. 

[Abburo]

Virpil lead time is way better than VKBs anyway :))

[Gunfreak]

8 minutes ago, Abburo said:

Virpil lead time is way better than VKBs anyway :))

Ah good to know.

[LuseKofte]

I am following this. I will buy Brunner stick as soon as my two sim pits get fused together as one. 
(I have two houses I live in) 

I have maxflightstick and a custom made floor mounted stick and are used to long very accurate joysticks. 
What I get out of all of this is that it is not recommended with Brunner base. Is that correct? Also is it much hassle setting it up and run with DCS. 
Flying any chopper can be done with only movement of a dollar coin anyway. 

Edited February 1, 2023 by LuseKofte

[Abburo]

@LuseKofte Brunner software evolved in time, and currently there is absolutely no hassle to setup with DCS. I do agree however you need to do some extra steps first time to enable FFB via their internal vJoy interface. But everything is properly documented and out of the box.

Brunner CLS-E base is having 4Nm torque... which I would say is good enough for a stick without extension. Precision is also very good, no argue on this. If you are having a long extend arm, then those 4Nm would still be ok, but only for short time. Brunnner cannot sustain high torque values for longer time because internal components will get hot and they are having their own self protection disabling the motors until the temperatures goes down to normal parameters. I do however use a 7cm extender for even better precision and I would say this would be a maximum to keep the base safe... occasionally in dogfights I am encountering FFB disabling, depending on the environment temperature as well.

Flying helicopters is a bit different from effort perspective due to the trim nature... so I have never experienced any FFB disabling for them.

Edited February 1, 2023 by Abburo

[LuseKofte]

@Abburo Many thanks for your reply. 
So If I usually only fly choppers and occasionally ground attack ac. It should not hurt with a 10 cm extension. I got one that why I ask. 
I conclude that the best thing will be to build a console and a seat with as little extension as possible. 
I am a little tempted to buy the rudder pedals as well anyone have any experience with it?

[Abburo]

You should be fine with 10 cm extension... I need to add that the base throw is big enough, rendering the longer extension a bit unusable (you'll touch your knees and need to move your feet to make room  ). Also it will throw to much in front so you would need to lean your body :)) ... Again 10cm could be at top usability according with my personal preferences.

If you are referring  to Brunner FFB pedals, I am finding those a bit over the top, being more suitable for professionals. The same level of accuracy could be obtain with anything like MFG, or Virpil by simply adding a dumper and eventually remove their springs... up to you. There is no worth to even mention the prices :)) 

[LuseKofte]

1 minute ago, Abburo said:

like MFG, or Virpil

Got both. Mgf with one broken brake pedal. Was one of his first customers. 
I am to sell the rest of it. 
thanks again. I guess you are right, a bit of unneeded even for us simmers

[Berniyh]

Yeah, FFB rudder pedals are mainly useful for dual-cockpit flight trainers, where they can ensure that the input matches on both sides. For home usage, you don't need them.

For choppers, I think the VKB pedals are very nice. They are very precise and you don't need a lot of force to operate them. If you can live with the up/down movement and without toe brakes (most choppers don't have those anyway), then they are a good choice.

[Gunfreak]

Anyone using the Monstertech brunner mount?`I can't get the mounting plate ontop of the brunner base. 

 

I had to turn the mounting plate upside down...

Now how do I sett the FFB settings to aroun 2kg? I don't want it going in and out of that "safe" mode, so at 2kg instead of 4, I should have a lot to work with before to goes into safe mode, but what setting is it?

Edited February 22, 2023 by Gunfreak

[Berniyh]

I've got one, but I think it's an older version.

I think you need to screw it on from underneath, so that the Brunner's plate is on top. At least that's how it's done in case of the mount that I have.

Edit: Mount the plate like shown here and then just put the Brunner in so that it sits on top. Put in the screws, tighten, done.

Here is a picture with the joystick already mounted. It's the older mount plate that I have, but in the end it works the same way:

 

Edited February 22, 2023 by Berniyh

[Gunfreak]

1 hour ago, Berniyh said:

I've got one, but I think it's an older version.

I think you need to screw it on from underneath, so that the Brunner's plate is on top. At least that's how it's done in case of the mount that I have.

Edit: Mount the plate like shown here and then just put the Brunner in so that it sits on top. Put in the screws, tighten, done.

Here is a picture with the joystick already mounted. It's the older mount plate that I have, but in the end it works the same way:

 

 

Dosn't fit, the "wing" on the mount plate are to tight, and won't fit around the cloth covered rim. I had to mount it upside down, but that is clearly not how it's supposed to be fitten given how the scews fit.