Corner speed /Air combat maneuvering

[Snappy]

Hi everyone,

 

 

if anyone has some good advice for air combat maneuvering that would be most helpful.

I mean in specific regard as to maneuvre the MIG-29 to its maximum potential during BFM.

 

 

Depending on the source the corner speed is quoted as being somewhere in the region

between 600-680km/h.

 

The aircraft does turn nicely at the speed, however I find that even with full Afterburner it is prone to loose energy at that speed and then is very slow to accelerate back up to higher speeds , for example to go into vertical or oblique maneuvering.

 

(this is with approx 3/4 fuel and 4 IR missiles as loadout)

 

 

At higher speeds (850-1000 km/h) it turnrate goes down, but it seems to conserve its energy during turn much better, at least in AB.

 

 

 

 

What are your experiences ? what works best for you to maximize its touted agility/ maneuvrebility?

 

Looking forward to discussion,

 

 

Kind regards,

 

Snappy

[Ironhand]

You’ve already answered your question. I haven’t checked any charts but, as you observed, you’ll get your best sustained turn rate at the higher speed. Seems to be around 800. You’re best instantaneous rate will be at the slower speed—mid-600s? That’s your corner speed. You just can’t hold it for long as you discovered...though my impression is that you can maintain it a bit longer than in other airframes.

Edited November 9, 2018 by Ironhand

[Top Jockey]

I believe the corner speed for the MiG-29 doesn't differ that much than the one for the F-16.

(At sims however!)

 

Actually it's not a specific speed, but more like an interval from 330 - 380 kts.

Roughly 610 - 705 kph.

 

But amongst several factors, it also depends if you want to travel faster around the "circle" or, bring the nose on target faster...

 

1 - I believe it doesn't lose energy as easily as in the Standard Flight Model.

 

2 - What you are experiencing probably is: you're already at its maximum Sustained Turn Rate for those circumstances... and when you pull the stick too much, certainly you're going to start losing speed.

 

3 - Fuel quantity; at mission editor I start dogfights with 60 % fuel and 2 IR missiles.

 

4 - Speed; those 850 - 1000 kph you mention, is going to cause a too big turn circle / turn radius, which also allows the enemy to turn is weapons on you.

Edited November 9, 2018 by Top Jockey

[GGTharos]

Corner speed is the speed at which you simultaneously have the greatest turn rate and greatest g that you can use. It is NOT a sustained turn rate.

 

 

What you're looking for is something else, and that something else depends on what your opponent is doing. As a rule of thumb 600-680 is probably the middle of what you're looking for and you're good there.

 

 

Your best sustained speed is not your best climb speed is not your corner speed :)

 

 

 

 

Depending on the source the corner speed is quoted as being somewhere in the region

between 600-680km/h.

 

The aircraft does turn nicely at the speed, however I find that even with full Afterburner it is prone to loose energy at that speed and then is very slow to accelerate back up to higher speeds , for example to go into vertical or oblique maneuvering.

[Snappy]

Sorry guys,

 

 

think I did not express myself clearly enough.I will try again.

 

 

I am familiar with the concepts of corner speed and best sustained turn rate

and that the two are not identical.Each have their own applicability depending on the circumstances.

Also I‘m familiar with the turn rate vs turn radius terms.

 

What I intended to discuss was how do you fly the Mig to maximize its potential in BFM or close-in combat.What works best so to say.

 

Of course that depends also on your opponents aircraft type.

 

I simply hoped for an open discussion about your experiences with the PFM against various adversaries within visual range.

Sharing of advice or tips if you want.

 

 

In Various reports of western pilots that flew 4th gen aircraft against the Mig-29, the consensus seemed to be:

Dont get slow (think 380kts or less )or the Mig 29 will gain a big advantage due to its better maneuvrebility at lower speeds.

However I dont find that advantage easy to utilize since at that speeds even the Mig bleeds energy quickly while turning and only slowly regains it ,even in unloaded acceleration.

 

Thats why I wrote about that in my first post.

 

 

Kind regards

 

Snappy.

Edited November 9, 2018 by Snappy

[Wizard_03]

Keep your speed above 600 the 29 actually has incredible acceleration. So use that to your advantage. I like using ‘big ovals’ in the horizontal. Try and get your bandit to spend all his energy turning with you.

 

Again though BFM is very situational.

[Svend_Dellepude]

Go slow against a Hornet and you are dead.