Discussing stealth

[GGTharos]

I suggest you look up the definition of 'plasma', and then tell me what 'non ionized plasma' is.

[Slaunyeh]

With all my ignorance, this plasma tech seems more "Lucy in the sky with diamonds" than anythings.

Would i be widely wrong if i sayd that plasma being the result of active lasering you´ll need constant laser production, someway to counter / hide the laser emission, someway to spread constantly the plasma gas over the airframe in a way it´ll be effective for its intended purpose ?

 

So we have the following problem to solve :

Massive energy production

Energy dispersion

Energy shielding

Constant gas emission over a surface suffering from extreme air flow

Unblind itself

this, to begin with...

 

As much as i know technically speaking, right now its easyer to build a star destroyer, at least we already have the theory and techniques but we lack ressources. Um maybe we lack the shields for hangars.

[Guest superanubistype]

Lol I once had a discussion like this with a chap who wouldnt accept that there are xray machines that exsist that dont use radiation.

[GGTharos]

Yeah, that's because they produce radiation instead - but speaking of which, what's your definition of radiation anyway?

 

And ... again ... X-Ray ... machines ... use X-Ray wavelength emissions, aka 'radiation'. So are you really talking about X-Ray machines, or something else? ;)

[Guest superanubistype]

Do you beleive there are X-Ray machines that dont emit any radiation?.

[GGTharos]

Nope. Those are not X-Ray machines. X-Ray machines use X-Rays. So why don't you call whatever you're talking about by its proper name?

[Guest superanubistype]

http://www.isis.rl.ac.uk/ Forgot to say that this machine has the ability to xray any metals by powder defraction, waveguides & using special plates X-rays donot come into direct contact with any sample whatsoever. ISIS has the abilitie to be a total non destructive X-ray machine. I have absoultley no clue how it works but it does.

[Pilotasso]

Then howcome you say it doesnt use any radiatio?

[GGTharos]

There's no X-Rays because it isn't an X-Ray machine. It's an accelerator producing neutron and muon streams - aka hard radiation in most cases.

[Guest superanubistype]

Pilotasso ISIS2 has the capabilities to X-Rays any sample without using radiation, The machine uses X-Rays, But it does not emit them directly onto the the sample, you could put your hand in the beams path without any health risk at all. It's used to analys mainly cell proteins & metals and is non destructive.

 

'It is an X-ray machine that does not emit radiation'.

 

A majority of Plasmas are alpha and beta emitters, Aplha emitters can be blocked by a single peice of paper, Beta emitters can be blocked by 0.5 mm of Aluminum, These emmiters are so weak that the background radiation from the sun would drown them out. Did you also know most Alpha and Beta emitters only emit radiation a few mm's in distance before they decay?.

 

Basically you would need to be very close to use a sensor to pick up the the Alpha and beta emitters off a Alpha or Beta emitting plasma, Like how a person uses a Geiger counter.

Doppler or AESA dont even use these wavelengths it uses microwave wave lengths if I'm correct?, Either way you'd need to be very close to be able to sense the presence of fast decaying Alpha and Beta emitters.

 

Think of it like the 'burn through rate' of radar that's being jammed, But with Alpha and Beta emitters the sensor would need to be mm close to burn through the background radiation from the sun to be able to detect the source of these fast decaying emmiters.

 

Tritium is commonly used by the science industry in plasmas it is a Beta emmiter which travels less that 2mm and has a half life of excatly 12.4 years.

 

I posted that JET circulates plasma in 360 degree circle in less than 20 meters, Which is false information, It's actually less than 6 meters.

[Guest superanubistype]

Pilotasso ISIS2 has the capabilities to X-Rays any sample without using radiation, The machine uses X-Rays, But it does not emit them directly onto the the sample, you could put your hand in the beams path without any health risk at all. It's used to analys mainly cell proteins & metals and is non destructive.

 

'It is an X-ray machine that does not emit radiation'.

 

A majority of Plasmas are alpha and beta emitters, Aplha emitters can be blocked by a single peice of paper, Beta emitters can be blocked by 0.5 mm of Aluminum, These emmiters are so weak that the background radiation from the sun would drown them out. Did you also know most Alpha and Beta emitters only emit radiation a few mm's in distance before they decay?.

 

Basically you would need to be very close to use a sensor to pick up the the Alpha and beta emitters off a Alpha or Beta emitting plasma, Like how a person uses a Geiger counter.

Doppler or AESA dont even use these wavelengths it uses microwave wave lengths if I'm correct?, Either way you'd need to be very close to be able to sense the presence of fast decaying Alpha and Beta emitters.

 

Think of it like the 'burn through rate' of radar that's being jammed, But with Alpha and Beta emitters the sensor would need to be mm close to burn through the background radiation from the sun to be able to detect the source of these fast decaying emmiters.

 

Tritium is commonly used by the science industry in plasmas it is a Beta emmiter which travels less that 2mm and has a half life of excatly 12.4 years. How the hell can a radar pick up an emitter than only travels less than 2mm before it decays?

 

I posted that JET circulates plasma in 360 degree circle in less than 20 meters, Which is false information, It's actually less than 6 meters.

[tflash]

Superanubistype, you start to get my attention for this. A quick search in the ISI Web of Science shows that there is still a lot of research being done on these kinds of plasma, not only for stealth but also for pure aerodynamic purposes: optimizing the airflow for inlets etc.

 

But when used for RCS reduction, first of all it is just an alternative for RAM coating and thus more a confirmation of the value of stealth than some anti-stealth solution; and second it remains close to nowhere as a currently available solution.

 

Much more logical is that Russian, Chinese, French and British aerospace industry are currently researching RAM coating materials and RCS telemetry to optimize inlet/basic shape design to improve the RCS of their fighters and more important - UAV's and cruise missiles.

 

Using composite materials for the airframe already greatly improves the stealth characteristics of an aircraft. The fact that Boeing was able to susbtantially reduce the RCS signature of the Super Hornet (without it becoming a true stealth aircraft of course) is for sure encouraging.

 

Plasma will stay in the fundamental science labs for still a long while, I guess.

[tflash]

He guys, as a follow-up I found two tiny, almost casual but promising references to the use of plasma to reduce RCS on the Irbis radar:

 

"The Russian press has revealed that a plasma screen proposed by the Institute of Theoretical and Applied Electrodynamics (ITPE) would be used to reduce the cross-section of the radar's antenna. It has already been tested on the N011M radar of the T-10M fighter."

 

From a forum of key Publishing: http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/printthread.php?t=73449

 

I found a similar remark in Air fan 343 juin 2007, p. 45

 

"En outre, le recours а la technologie plasma pour protйgйr l'antenne devrait diminuer l'effet mirroir de celle-ci et ainsi participer a la rйduction SER de l'avion en secteur frontal". In an article on the Irbis radar for Su-35BM.