FM after latest patch

[Hummingbird]

Seems that the F-14 has suffered a little bit in sustained turn performance since the last patch.

 

What was changed?

[fjacobsen]

*Small adjustments to thrust and drag models

[Donut]

Changelog states, "small adjustments to thrust and drag models"

 

What exactly are you noticing? Less speed, turn rate?

[WHOGX5]

I definitely noticed a decrease in thrust. That would also explain the decreased sustained turn rate mentioned above.

[Hummingbird]

I'm noticing a decrease in sustained turn rate, which I don't really understand as it seemed to perfectly match the EM charts before. Would be nice with a more detailed description by the devs.

[FWind]

I'm noticing a decrease in sustained turn rate, which I don't really understand as it seemed to perfectly match the EM charts before. Would be nice with a more detailed description by the devs.

 

Send a tacview，thanks.

[dekiplav]

I also notice that there is quite a bit decrease in trust and in sustained turn performance now. I used to out turn the MiG-29 easily on the deck at 300-350 kts and then when he go to the vertical, I flowed him with no problem, but now ... I can only say thank god for the flaps. :)

[Hummingbird]

Yeah, these "small" adjustments seem to have a rather major impact. The cat feels more sluggish that it should be in the turns now.

[Sonoda Umi]

Sure, it's makes harder to turn.

 

PS: After apr. 10 upgrade, the F-14B still not break M2.2 at 40,000ft.

 

Hoping HB continue to align FM.

[Sonoda Umi]

up to now, I always believe the drag being too big.

[Hummingbird]

At 55,600 lbs with 4x AIM-9 + 4x AIM-7's the real F-14B is able to sustain ~6.7 G at M 0.6 @ SL (~19 deg/sec).

 

I was able to achieve this prior to yesterdays patch, but now I am unable.

 

Question is wether it's a case of too much drag or too little thrust.

 

Going to conduct further testing today once I get home.

 

PS: For comparisons sake a real similarly armed F-15C will sustain ~6 G's at the same speed & altitude (~17 deg/sec). Atm this is where the ingame F-14 seems to be placed due to either a drag or thrust error.

Edited April 11, 2019 by Hummingbird

[FWind]

At 55,600 lbs with 4x AIM-9 + 4x AIM-7's the real F-14B is able to sustain ~6.7 G at M 0.6 @ SL (~19 deg/sec).

 

I was able to achieve this prior to yesterdays patch, but now I am unable.

 

Question is wether it's a case of too much drag or too little thrust.

 

Going to conduct further testing today once I get home.

 

PS: For comparisons sake a real similarly armed F-15C will sustain ~6 G's at the same speed & altitude (~17 deg/sec). Atm this is where the ingame F-14 seems to be placed due to either a drag or thrust error.

 

Maybe problem of lift.:)

[Hummingbird]

Maybe problem of lift.:)

 

Considering they supposedly only touched the drag and thrust, and that in a max STR turn you're not pulling max lift, I don't think it's a lift issue.

 

My guess is that they either increased the lift induced drag too much or they reduced the thrust too much, or perhaps a combination of the two.

 

I'll know more once I get home and run some more tests.

[Sonoda Umi]

At 55,600 lbs with 4x AIM-9 + 4x AIM-7's the real F-14B is able to sustain ~6.7 G at M 0.6 @ SL (~19 deg/sec).

 

I was able to achieve this prior to yesterdays patch, but now I am unable.

 

Question is wether it's a case of too much drag or too little thrust.

 

Going to conduct further testing today once I get home.

 

PS: For comparisons sake a real similarly armed F-15C will sustain ~6 G's at the same speed & altitude (~17 deg/sec). Atm this is where the ingame F-14 seems to be placed due to either a drag or thrust error.

 

if AI F-16C goes vertical loop, my F-14B can't follow him on due to thrust decreasing.

[OnlyforDCS]

I don't understand why the devs are adjusting the FM at the moment, was there some problem with how the Cat performed in previous patches? It seemed to be right on the money and I've heard no complaints or seen no particular irregularities with the flight model?

[sLYFa]

At 55,600 lbs with 4x AIM-9 + 4x AIM-7's the real F-14B is able to sustain ~6.7 G at M 0.6 @ SL (~19 deg/sec).

Where do you have these numbers from? The 1.1 doesn't nearly give these values for a sustained turn in that configuration.

[Hummingbird]

Where do you have these numbers from? The 1.1 doesn't nearly give these values for a sustained turn in that configuration.

 

It does, but the values are for 5000 ft, and with that it's quite easy to calculate the performance at SL.

 

For reference you can have a look at the F15 and F16's performance change from 5000 ft to SL, it's in the exact same order of magnitude.

[Hummingbird]

I don't understand why the devs are adjusting the FM at the moment, was there some problem with how the Cat performed in previous patches? It seemed to be right on the money and I've heard no complaints or seen no particular irregularities with the flight model?

 

Tbh I don't understand it either, esp. since it performed spot on before, at least in terms of STR.

 

But it is open beta, so some tuning is to be expected. This one unfortunately just seems to have turned out to be for the worse.

[Blinde]

I don't understand why the devs are adjusting the FM at the moment, was there some problem with how the Cat performed in previous patches? It seemed to be right on the money and I've heard no complaints or seen no particular irregularities with the flight model?

+1

 

From what I've heard, F-14 was on steroids with GE engines so it's shame that they tone the performance down.

[FWind]

I don't understand why the devs are adjusting the FM at the moment, was there some problem with how the Cat performed in previous patches? It seemed to be right on the money and I've heard no complaints or seen no particular irregularities with the flight model?

 

flight into stall in 1g, and read the NATOPS about Stall Characteristics.:book:

[FZG_Immel]

I bet it involved some adversaries crying on the forum. 'Performance is fictional'

[Hummingbird]

I bet it involved some adversaries crying on the forum. 'Performance is fictional'

 

I don't think so as that's easily debunked via the EM charts.

 

I think they're simply experimenting atm trying to match a certain performance envelope as closely as possible with the unexpected side effect of negatively affecting others.

 

Hopefully a HB dev jumps on this soon as it would really suck if the Cat stays like this for long :)

Edited April 11, 2019 by Hummingbird

[Airhunter]

Yeah I don't undertand these constant tweaks to the FM. Weren't 4 years of fm development, research and testing enough to get it accurate?

[sLYFa]

It does, but the values are for 5000 ft, and with that it's quite easy to calculate the performance at SL.

I think you are a little too optimistic on that

Sustained turnrate will be around 16°/sec 5.2g @5K and 14°/s 5g @10k. Getting another 1.5g and 3° turnrate more at SL does seem too much

Edited April 11, 2019 by sLYFa

[lunaticfringe]

Weren't 4 years of fm development, research and testing enough to get it accurate?

 

If HB were working purely in a vacuum with their own engine and model, yes. But there are other factors at play, such as the aforementioned drag dynamic that they don't necessarily have full control over, stores drag values, etc. Right now the chase is on top end at certain points it's not properly reaching. Once that's done, the low end will get its bump back.

 

Give them time. There's been some gentle massaging of it for a bit since the test group got their hands on it, and a bit more during the expansion. This isn't just single lever pulling, and the subsonic numbers have always come back home to roost shortly.