Another AGM-65F question

[Eagle7907]

Hey geniuses. How would you target a building or structure with the 65F?

 

Not sure what I’m doing wrong.

 

-master arm to ARM

-select A/G

-select MAV

-I allow the missile to align.

-make sure left DDI is selected by using sensor select LEFT

- After aligned, Uncage missile, slew crosshairs to target

- once locked, fire weapon

 

Problem is I can’t get the missile seeker to lock on to a building. The target is an actual unit. Not a static object. So I’m completely lost.

 

Also, I tried using the 65E and a JTAC lase the building. That didn’t work either. The laser was no where near the target even though I assigned JTAC to target this unit. ???? The unit has line of sight and no red showing in the ME once assigned.

 

 

 

 

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[silverdevil]

i think what you are looking for is "force correlate feature" that I am unsure if it is modeled in F18. it was in A10. also you may try to adjust contrast on the missile. it needs to have an IR target to lock. i have seen posts by others having the opposite issue that you are having. trying to lock on to tank and it picks building instead.

[Py]

I don't think you can.

It appears that DCS doesn't actually simulate IR seekers locking onto contrast, it's more like "seeker is pointing at a unit, allow a lock".

So you can only lock things that DCS counts as a valid unit (which includes lampposts for some reason...).

 

You can do it with the maverick variants that have the "force correlate" function (-G? -H?), but the F/A-18C doesn't carry them.

[Harker]

DCS uses contrast as the deciding factor on whether a sensor can track something or not, like in real life. I've been able to lock onto pretty much anything, including buildings, power pylons and static ships.

The problem, for a long time, was that the image you were getting was not exactly based on the target's temperature, but rather on its color difference with the environment.

There is a new IR renderer in the works, but it is incomplete still. I think parts of it have made it in the game though.

In short, it's probably there's not enough contrast between your target and its surrounding environment.

[Eagle7907]

Hmmmm. Okay. Thanks for the response guys. Like I said, geniuses.

 

So how would I solve this problem in this mission? Somehow change the lighting? Am I understanding this right?

 

 

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[Lithion]

Hmmmm. Okay. Thanks for the response guys. Like I said, geniuses.

 

So how would I solve this problem in this mission? Somehow change the lighting? Am I understanding this right?

 

 

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You could try and place a unit inside of the building, maybe the Mav can pick it up through the building and lock on! Let me know if that workaround works, would like to know for my own ME :thumbup:

[Eagle7907]

Temporary Solution

 

You could try and place a unit inside of the building, maybe the Mav can pick it up through the building and lock on! Let me know if that workaround works, would like to know for my own ME :thumbup:

 

 

 

It appears that did make the the 65F impact and destroy the building. I didn’t change anything with the exception of adding a hidden vehicle inside the building itself.

 

Now this is a building like a house. Not sure if that would work with a building with a flat top. The vehicle may just sit on top. Thanks for the idea.

 

 

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Edited May 30, 2019 by Eagle7907
added title for easy solution for next reader

[Harker]

You could try and place a unit inside of the building, maybe the Mav can pick it up through the building and lock on! Let me know if that workaround works, would like to know for my own ME :thumbup:

Good thinking!

[Lithion]

Cheers for the feedback, good point on the flat roofed buildings, I'm not too familiar with the little intricaties of the DCS ME, might get into placing things more in towns once I get a Helo module :D

[Eagle7907]

Yeah, that was sort of the idea of this mission. I included some no-fly areas and the idea of hostile using a mosque for tactical reasons, dispersing weapons at night, etc. Something commonly seen in previous combat videos.

 

 

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[derammo]

being able to lock a unit inside the building suggests it is just like someone above said, and the current code for the 65F is just trivially locking on to any unit being pointed at. This would explain why you can fly at 10,000ft and move the target around a base several nm away and just point at every bright dot and it will lock on to any bright dot that happens to represent a unit.

 

It seems like a trivial implementation without any model of the actual sensor (locking onto an I/R image?)

[Lithion]

being able to lock a unit inside the building suggests it is just like someone above said, and the current code for the 65F is just trivially locking on to any unit being pointed at. This would explain why you can fly at 10,000ft and move the target around a base several nm away and just point at every bright dot and it will lock on to any bright dot that happens to represent a unit.

 

It seems like a trivial implementation without any model of the actual sensor (locking onto an I/R image?)

 

You're right, currently DCS IR modelling is basically (if placed unit) -> bright as poop on IR

 

Though ED is currently working on improved IR modelling for the engine, which last i heard is slated for implementation with the ATFLIR for the Hornet, and probably in some form for the F-16 too.

Edited June 1, 2019 by Lithion
Language

[Eagle7907]

I think vehicles get a higher priority to targeting that structures. My mission is proof of that. The building had the same contrast as a truck that parked in front it. Even though the building was a “unit”, the maverick did not target it. Hence the hack to get it to.

 

In short, being a unit doesn’t really matter. If it’s a vehicle or person, the maverick will certainly target them.

 

 

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[Lithion]

I think vehicles get a higher priority to targeting that structures. My mission is proof of that. The building had the same contrast as a truck that parked in front it. Even though the building was a “unit”, the maverick did not target it. Hence the hack to get it to.

 

In short, being a unit doesn’t really matter. If it’s a vehicle or person, the maverick will certainly target them.

 

 

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I don't think it's related to what gets priority, I actually assumed you were targetting a stock building in town, not a self-placed item.

 

What could be the issue is that the AGM-65 seeker can't pick up that large of a target, and instead goes for the vehicle which it can make out (somehow). I'd base this on how you have the anti-ship mode which widens the sensor FOV for a lock, and how we used to have force correlate which widened it even further.

[Eagle7907]

I don't think it's related to what gets priority, I actually assumed you were targetting a stock building in town, not a self-placed item.

 

 

 

What could be the issue is that the AGM-65 seeker can't pick up that large of a target, and instead goes for the vehicle which it can make out (somehow). I'd base this on how you have the anti-ship mode which widens the sensor FOV for a lock, and how we used to have force correlate which widened it even further.

 

 

 

I tried that before using the hidden truck method. It still wouldn’t lock. I don’t know.

 

 

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[Harker]

I don't know, my Mavs target buildings, either on the map or user placed, just fine... The only requirement is that I get close enough for the seeker to clearly make out the structure from the background.

[Eagle7907]

I did that too. Almost bit the dust doing that. It refuses to lock this unit where placed.

 

 

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