ME: Crawling through treacle

[Yeti42]

WARNING, this is a semi-rant, I have not included a track file and I won't because:

a) The track replay and outcome changes every time

b) The problems I'm describing are generic

 

I'm tired, I spent 3 hours last night trying to get a flight of AI Tornados' s to carry out a SEAD mission in a semi-realistic way. Two flights, one a three-ship and the other a two-ship engaging two sperate SAM units with ALARM missiles. This would appear to be a fairly straight forward task involving asking the aircraft to engage specific groups at a certain WP with ARM missiles.

 

1) Most of the time at least one wingman will fly into the ground for no apparent reason

2) Both flights end up going for the same target even though they are specifically targeted at separate groups

3) No matter how far out you set the action to engage the group (small line and triangle appear) the AI still flies up to the target, turns around and then comes back in.

4) They can't land... final waypoint is set to the landing airfield, (which incidentally is the one they took off from) they just fly around randomly cycling thier gear and eventually crash

 

Now I know I'll get comments about using "MOOSE", but why should I HAVE to use MOOSE to get things to work the way they should? The AI in DCS is seriously flawed and desperately needs an overhaul, it has done for some time. Rather than have groovy wake turbulence effects and added units, I'd rather they (ED) sort out this ridiculousness.

 

Second rant:

Why is there no easy way to create a trigger reacting to runway destroyed or hit? The only way appears to be the bomb in zone method which is:

a) Imprecise, bomb needs to be in zone for more than one second, so zone needs to be larger than the runway width

b) You need multiple zones all the way down the runway

c) You need to specify every type of bomb in the trigger that's likely to be dropped

d) If you try and cheat by placing units on the runway (hidden infantry) AI will not take off from the runway because it's blocked

 

Seriously? This is a common scenario

 

Rant over ;) I feel better now, at least until somebody comments about posting a track file or tells me something obvious... LOL

[dark_wood]

Each time i set a SEAD mission to engage a small AA target (let's say it is a Tor launcher), the AI group will attack first the larger threat (KUB, BUK, S-300, etc), even if is far away from their path.

 

Sometimes, the AI group take off, then, instead off following the waypoints, it just circle around the airport, until they are of fuel or crash.

 

So yes, we spent a lot of time preparing a mission, then AI decide that is time to ruin it :(

Edited September 5, 2019 by dark_wood

[Habu_69]

I too have wasted WAY too many hours trying to make AI execute a SEAD mission properly, using every method described in these forums. Thing is, OCCASIONALLY but rarely, they do it. In frustration, I have resorted to scripting the destruction of the AD units, sometimes with a random factor. After all the AI SEAD work is transparent to a human pilot. Poor work-around, but better than banging my head against the proverbial wall.

[Hardcard]

Now I know I'll get comments about using "MOOSE", but why should I HAVE to use MOOSE to get things to work the way they should? The AI in DCS is seriously flawed and desperately needs an overhaul, it has done for some time. Rather than have groovy wake turbulence effects and added units, I'd rather they (ED) sort out this ridiculousness.

 

Because ED invests its resources with profits in mind (that's what companies do).

 

Fixing AI problems won't increase their revenue, but adding eye-catching stuff and creating new modules will attract people, which translates into cash.

 

If you want ED to fix fundamental problems in DCS, you need to give them an economic incentive... otherwise you'll need to cross your fingers and wait, see if they get around to fixing this stuff..eventually.

 

... Or you can create scripts in order to work around the existing issues, your choice.

 

Sure, the situation is far from ideal, but it's how the world works.

Edited September 5, 2019 by Hardcard

[Emmy]

Because ED invests its resources with profits in mind (that's what companies do).

 

Fixing AI problems won't increase their revenue, but adding eye-catching stuff and creating new modules will attract people, which translates into cash.

 

If you want ED to fix fundamental problems in DCS, you need to give them an economic incentive... otherwise you'll need to cross your fingers and wait, see if they get around to fixing this stuff..eventually.

 

... Or you can create scripts in order to work around the existing issues, your choice.

 

Sure, the situation is far from ideal, but it's how the world works.

 

Sorry but this is a horrible attitude.

 

There’s zero reason to not hold ED accountable for missing or broken functions that should be in the sim and available to all players.

 

Granted, it may not be an A+ priority, but it is something that should, in time, be addressed.

 

Scripting to accomplish things that the ME should do for everyone doesn’t make it ok. It’s basically saying “I’m willing to be an uncompensated programmer.”

[Grimes]

1) Most of the time at least one wingman will fly into the ground for no apparent reason

2) Both flights end up going for the same target even though they are specifically targeted at separate groups

3) No matter how far out you set the action to engage the group (small line and triangle appear) the AI still flies up to the target, turns around and then comes back in.

4) They can't land... final waypoint is set to the landing airfield, (which incidentally is the one they took off from) they just fly around randomly cycling thier gear and eventually crash

 

1. Yeah AI have a habit of doing that whenever they are in "evasive mode."

2. It sounds like you kept the default "SEAD" task in their task queue and then added specific tasks to attack a group/units. The default task basically allows them to attack any sam target they detect and will likely take precedence over specific tasks you give them.

3. Probably would need a sample mission to figure out specifics of why it is doing that.

4. Yes landing behavior has been pretty bad for a while, but as long as there aren't other AI that are taxiing to take-off the AI should be able to clear themselves into landing.

 

 

As a general rule of thumb I almost always remove the default enroute task for AI and replace it with a search and engage in zone for where-ever I want the AI to be attacking. For SEAD flights where I want them to go after specific targets I will use "Search and Engage Unit", I'll only list the search/tracking radars, and depending on the sam I'll tell the AI to launch multiple missiles. IMO the default tasks are only good at setting up quick flights where you don't care which specific targets the AI will attack.

[feefifofum]

Sniped! Everything Grimes just said. :thumbup: