Launch warning in STT?

[MobiSev]

Simple question. Should you get a missile launch warning if you are being STT locked?

[ravenzino]

The RWR on F/A-18C indicates differently upon STT Lock and Missile Launch.

Not sure the other jets.

[Kang]

This depends a lot on the RWR you use and a little on what's being launched at you.

 

The MiG-21's simple RWR for example doesn't give you any indication of launch at all, although there has been a lot of discussion about whether or not this is realistic, just like the way it stops giving you direction info once you are locked.

 

Many of the others give you a distinction, usually by starting to flash and beep in the event of launch of a SARH missile, as the radar beam ramps up its intensity. This is generally not guaranteed for the launch of an IR missile, even if you were previously radar locked for ranging.

[robgraham]

So with standard RWR (western) like we use normally you get a 'contact' and 'update' every time the radar detects a sweeping pulse, that's why you get the 'nails' your rwr's detected the sweeping pulse, when something goes STT you get the 'locked' pulse because the radars now basically hammering you and in most cases it's also switched the pulse regulation and frequencies to better track you, your spiked call.

 

At this point what happens next is very much dependent on a few things.

- What type of missile is being shot.

- What RWR/MWS features are in the bird your in.

 

For example here an AIM-7 your basically not going to ever get a warning beyond the fact your hard locked in most Jets, as it is riding that reflection to your jet.

 

With an AIM-120 until the missile goes 'pitbull' (Active) you won't get any indication of the missile having been fired at you as it's relying on guidence from the main ship. The same goes if something launches on you in TWS you may not get a warning at all until the missile goes active, at that point some times you'll see a M appear on the hornets RWR which is hey look i've detected a missiles radar locking us. But there is no way for the RWR to know beyond that you've been launched on, unless the radar in question does a specific shift when the missile is fired for guidence (like some SAM's' do etc)

 

If the EW system has a Missile Warning System also built into it, then you'll typically get a launch warning, the A-10C has this system and models it in DCS, but the Hornet doesn't.

 

The long and short though is if your being STT'd normally the person on the other end means business, you have to take a risk n guess if he's really launched or if he's playing with you.

Edited September 24, 2019 by robgraham

[Banzaiib]

depends on the missile. you don't get a launch warning when a 120 is fired at you in STT, but you will get a launch warning when an AIM-54 is fired at you in STT...

[GGTharos]

For example here an AIM-7 your basically not going to ever get a warning beyond the fact your hard locked in most Jets, as it is riding that reflection to your jet.

 

 

You will get a missile launch warning when the missile is launched.

[p1t1o]

Many 80-90s simulators and arcade games taught us that military jets have total situational awareness and can detect any missile or enemy.

 

Unfortunately this has never been the case IRL, and now that we have the capability of building sims that reflect reality to a high enough degree, we are finding out.

 

***

 

Note on missile launch warning systems (MLWS), in case you have yet to come across the information:

 

They are entirely seperate and work independently from RWR warnings.

 

They are simply a system of IR or UV cameras/sensors tuned to the frequency of the radiation given off by a hot rocket exhaust. Much in the same way that an RWR is a system of radio antennae tuned to the frequency of radar emissions.

 

Some are more sensitive than others. Some are sensitive enough to detect the hot nozzle of a missile for some short time after motor burnout.

 

They are non-discriminatory, if a missile is not tracking you, but passes into detection range, you will get a warning. If a friendly launches a missile nearby, you will get a warning. It will be that same warning as you get when a missile is launched directly at you.

 

This is one reason for "FOX" calls. If someone calls FOX1 and you immediately get a MLWS tone, and you are not expecting surprise guests, it is likely that manouvres are not necessary.

 

If the missile has cooled enough, you will not get a warning. So a R27T launched at max range might not trigger a warning.

 

MANPADS (stingers etc) may not ever set it off, depending on the system.

 

Naturally range of detection depends on various factors, basically the temperature of the missile/exhaust and the sensitivity of the system. They generally dont have huge range. If you hear it, you likely have seconds to decide if its time for last-ditch manouvres.

Edited September 27, 2019 by p1t1o

[Harker]

Radars use pulses with different characteristics to search, track and support a missile launch. A modern RWR can differentiate between these modes, using data stored in a library and alert the pilot accordingly.

 

In the example of the AIM-7, the missile can't be guided with pulses that have the same waveform that a simple STT lock has. It requires the radar to switch to PDI or FLOOD, both of which are different than STT. So the RWR would realize that there is a missile launch, because the radar's pulse characteristics changed to a mode that supports a launch.

 

For IR missiles, there's no radar guidance, so the RWR won't warn you. The only way to know is to spot it the launch visually or have certain detectors mounted on your aircraft (such as the MLWS on the A-10C) that can pick up the missile's smoke plume, if it's close enough (which is the case for most IR missiles).

 

Of course, all of the above rely on the fact that your RWR antennas or IR detectors actually "see" the enemy radar/missile plume. There are blind spots.